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Brenda Hubert

Why are you hiding the truth about Lisa McPherson's death?

From: Bob Minton <>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Brenda Hubert: Why are you hiding the truth about Lisa McPherson's death?
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:15:48 -0500
Organization: The Lisa McPherson Trust, 33 N. Fort Harrison Ave., Clearwater, Florida 33755 Telephone (727) 467-9335, Fax (727) 467-9345
Message-ID: <>

Brenda Hubert was asked by OSA to write a report about events in Lisa's life
the last few days before Lisa was incarcerated at the Fort Harrison Hotel
and tortured. On November 19, 1995, the day after Lisa was locked-up, Brenda
Hubert submitted this report to the Church of Scientology's OSA:


I'd like to preface this with information about my relationship with Lisa. I
have known Lisa for about 20 years. We were on staff together at the
Celebrity Centre in Dallas for 6 years; we were roommates for over 3 years;
we've worked together - first at Atlantic Financial Mortgage Co. and later
here at AMC for over 7 years. I know her well.

This past week AMC Publishing was exhibiting at a trade convention in
Orlando and 4 of the staff (Craig Burton, Brian Rakestraw, Lisa and myself.)
were assigned to go to Orlando and spend 4 days working the trade show.

Lisa has been working on an ethics program for several weeks now. Her ethics
terminal here at AMC has been Katie Chamberlain. Prior to us leaving for
Orlando on Wednesday morning, Katie came to me and told me that Lisa was
having some difficulty with her ethics cycle; that she was still mid-cycle
on her O/W write-up and was frequently-dispersed and generally "in the
middle of it". She wanted me to run tight 8C on Lisa at the trade show and
product officer her to get the work done at the show. I wasn't given any
other information specific to what her ethics program was but was asked not
to let Lisa discuss it with me or let her "run on" about anything that could
be remotely case-related.

In getting things together to get off on the road I noticed that Lisa was
dispersed. She couldn't get her things together in an A to B way; I had to
help her to make certain she had everything and that it was put in the car,
She had a list of references that Katie wanted her to read and she was
taking LRH books and dictionarys and tapes. She had a clipboard that she was
constantly making notes on about the most mundane, routine details. She was
obsessive about ''making a note'' about practically everything.

On the way to Orlando she was very frantic, she talked constantly and
couldn't, recall what she had just said; frequently changed course in the
middle of what she was saying and then asked me what she had been telling
me. She seemed to be struggling with staying in PT and was writing
everything down to remind her where she was and what she was supposed to do

In the time I have known Lisa she has needed orders and direction quite
often to stay on track or at least she would invite orders and direction and
someone else to tell her what to do despite the fact that it was
very obvious to anyone who was around her that she is an extremely able
thetan quite capable of running circles around just about anyone, My
observation is that she played the ditzy blonde to gain attention and
affection from others and to amuse people or just play a game with it to
create an effect. The behavior I was observing in the car on the trip was a
very exaggerated display of this same thing only there was an element of
desperation and pain associated with it She definitely was
struggling, was desperate and she was in pain as a being.


I made sure we stopped and that she was fed as she said she had not eaten. I
inquired about sleep and she said she had not been sleeping well. She told
me that she was getting up in the middle of the night and coming to the
office and working and then going home and trying to sleep. She said she had
been doing that for "a while now".. She said she had only had 3 or 4 hours
sleep the night before. I got her to Take some B and E when we stopped to

When we got to the convention she got even more frantic in her actions. She
had forgotten several personal items and she tore apart her luggage looking
for them and had her things strewn all over the room in total disarray. She
got irrationally upset that she didn't have these items and it took me
getting in her face and literally yelling at her to knock it off to subdue
her behavior. That didn't last long, within a few minutes she was back at
frantic again.

I put her to work and for a couple of hours she appeared to be "in control"
or at, least "under control,,,        I was watching her closely and it
appeared to me that she was still struggling to keep herself going or to
stay in PT.

I took her to get something else to eat and while we were in the restaurant
she suddenly turned around and called out to one of the people working in
the restaurant to come over to the table. She then proceeded to tell this
restaurant employee that they HAD to read the Dianetics book and they had to
do it NOW. It was a very off-the-wall type communication, to this person.
The person was completely in mystery about what the hell she was talking
about. I made some excuse and tried to make it appear to be a joke.

I took her back to the room and tried to get her to lay down and rest for a
whale, but she could not stay in any one spot for more than 30 seconds. She
was all over the place and just rattling on about this and that and stopping
to correct herself or ask me what she had just said.

Later that night Craig, Brian, Lisa and I went to dinner in the hotel.
During dinner she did a repeat performance of the earlier incident in the
cafe. She called over one of the waiters and started in with him about
reading the Dianetics book, it was not as "off the wall" as the earlier
incident but was still totally out of place and inappropriate. Also during
dinner we were having a conversation about one of my clients and the
difficulties he was having with his business due to some new legislation
that was implemented in his home state of New Jersey, Lisa yelled at me-
(literally)- about what I was doing to handle the situation with my
business and didn't I think it was necessary to let him know what the SPs
were doing there? she wanted to know what I thought he would do if be REALLY
knew who he was up against.

Craig, Brian and I were trying        to change the subject and get her off this
totally strange interrogation- she was out of control again.


After dinner I took her up to our room and made her go to bed at 9:30 as she
looked exhausted. She went to sleep. I went to sleep. At about 11 p.m. I
woke up to find her going through her luggage franticaIly and mumbling to
herself.. I asked her what she was doing up. She said she was hungry and was
going to go down to the snack bar to get some fruit and then that she was
going to read some references. I told her she needed to get back in bed and
get rest but couldn't get her to listen to me. She went to get the fruit. I
fell asleep.

Some time later (about 2 a.m?) I was awakened again when she slammed the
bedroom door. She was still up. I made her go to bed and stayed awake
until I thought she was asleep. At about 4:30 she was up again rambling
around; she finally went into the bathroom and was quiet. I fell asleep
again.  When I woke up at 7 a.m. I found her still in the bathroom
reading LRH. She looked like hell.

This erratic behavior got worse during the day, Craig and Brian were
reporting bizzare things to me about what she was saying and doing.. We all
started sharing responsibility for watchIng her. Things like not knowing
where she was, and asking where we were, where the door to the room was, how
to get to the elevator.

That night we hosted a hospitality suite and had clients coming and going
until 1 a.m. At about midnight I sent her to bed. When I finished up with
the suite about 1 a.m. I found her sound asleep and thought perhaps she
would sleep all night as we had had a very long day and she had slept so
little the two nights before, I went to bed. 

At 3 a.m, I woke up with a start and found her on top of me in my bed
holding me down by the arms. She was right in my face and she was
sobbing hysterically and telling me that I had to get up right then and
get dressed; that there was something going on on this planet that I
didn't know about and that we were in terrible danger; that I HAD TO HELP
HER before it was all too late. I couldn't get her to calm down. She
was ranting. Finally I shoved her off me and screamed at her to come to
present time and knock it off.  I told her I wasn't going to talk to her
unless she calmed down and talked to me rationally. I had no idea what
the hell to do with her -- I had no idea what was happening. I knew I
was talking and no one was home and I did not know how to get her to come
back home. I don't know what all was said or that it matters. She was
going on and on about needing to be more responsible and that she had
fucked up so badly that she couldn't make amends for it -- that she
didn' t know 'how to do what was being asked of her. She told me that she
was afraid that she was going to flip out again like she did earlier and
she was trying to keep that from happening again but couldn't be that
responsible.    That we needed to save the world NOW.

Finally I got her back in bed and she fell asleep and slept until about
7:30 a.m. She was even more spaced on Friday.   She walked to a girl
that was at the convention and got right in her face and started in with
her interrogation mock-up. She told this girl that she knew who she was
and that she had to get her hat on. The girl had no idea what the hell
she was talking about. Lisa just kept on with statements along those


Brian, Craig and I decided that I had to bring her home on Friday as she was
getting worse and worse, I got her things packed up and loaded us up and
started home. She was totally bizzare in the car on the way home. She kept
talking to me - just rambling and asking me what she had said. Anything I
said, she said she didn't get it or didn't understand and ask me to say it
again. She was very monotone. Then, she cried and cried but said nothing.
Then she was totally sullen and withdrawn.

About, 10 minutes out of Clearwater she started interrogating me about a
mutual friend and what I thought this person's out-ethics in life was and
why wasn't I taking responsibility for doing something with this person.
Then she started telling me about a Halloween party at Bennetta's house that
she had gone to. She told me about doing her interrogation routine on a girl
that was at the party that Lisa decided was her enemy and was somehow a
threat to everyone at the party. She started getting off overts about that
and then earlier overts. I couldn't get her to knock it off or quit talking
about it.

I took her home. When I got her upstairs and situated I stopped to see
what she was doing. She was just looking through her things and I asked
her if she would promise to call Katie and let her know that she was
back. She suddenly started talking to me and she was THERE and talking
rationally. She told me that she wanted me to know that earlier in the
spring when she flipped out that what had occurred was that when she went
clear she withheld it and didn't want anyone to know. That she withheld
it very very hard for a long time and that it crashed.        She said she
realized that being clear was something to share with others -- that it
wasn't just for her and that from the auditing and handlings she got she
came to see that and when that happened she was okay again. This was
said very directly and very matter-of-factly. I just acknowledged her.
I left her there with her promise that she would call Katie.

I want it known that the information I was given by Katie was that I was
to heavily product officer Lisa and was to be relentless in having her
knock off any behavior that was not appropriate to her post. I was told
that she was just pretending to be incapable and need directions and
orders and that I should not grant that any life or credence but should
get in her face if necessary to get tier productive. My own observations
of Lisa's behavior did not align with what I was told. I did what I was
told to do. I did try to impinge on her by yelling at her a few times.
I did tell her with force to knock it off.  I did tell her that she was at
risk of losing her job if she didn't straightened up and I didn't want that
should        operated on what I observed no matter what anyone else told me as I
am afraid that, I might nave made this whole thing worse or further upset
her and that was not what I wanted to have happen.


This is all I can recall. It you need other information or help from me,
please let me know. You can reach me at AMC at 446-1100 during work hours or
at home at 445-1115.

I love Lisa and want to see this get handled. Please do everything you can
for her.

Brenda Hubert

Brenda Hubert, I want to know why you remain silent about what your Church
did to kill your "friend" Lisa. I understand you and Katie Chamberlain have
both left AMC and no longer work for that evil bitch who drove Lisa to the
brink of insanity. Why don't you speak out now Brenda?

Call us so you can live with yourself Brenda.

Bob Minton

From: Bob Minton <>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Brenda Hubert: Why are you hiding the truth about Lisa McPherson's death?
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 00:01:31 -0500
Message-ID: <>

On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 00:45:15 GMT, (Catarina Pamnell)

>On Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:18:45 GMT, (Michael 'Mike'
>Gormez -- wrote:
>>>I did tell her with force to knock it off.  I did tell her that she was at
>>>risk of losing her job if she didn't straightened up and I didn't want that
>>>should operated on what I observed no matter what anyone else told me as I
>>>am afraid that, I might nave made this whole thing worse or further upset
>>>her and that was not what I wanted to have happen.
>>Eh? "didn't want that should operated" -- is that correct?

Catarina is right. The correct text was "I didn't want that
to happen.  I should have operated on what I observed...."

>My guess is she meant  " I didn't want that, I should have operated on
>what I observed..."
>"operated on what I observed"  is Scientologese for "acted based on
>what I observed"
>This story just gets sicker and sicker.  Her co-workers knew Lisa was
>losing it, days before she was locked up at Flag.  They obviously knew
>of her period of mental instability earlier that year. Just as
>obviously, the Flag supervisors would have been well aware of it -
>this would be documented in her files and there would have been people
>around who had "handled" her then.  
>There would probably have been at least three different types of
>reasoning with those who knew about Lisa's situation - those who
>sincerely believed that keeping her at Flag was for her own good,
>since letting her have psychiatric treatment would have been worse
>than death, those who desperately wanted to avoid a public scandal at
>any cost, and then those who didn't like what was going on but were
>too afraid of their Scientology seniors to do anything about it.  It's
>still almost unbelievable that not one out of all these people would
>have enough integrity and balls to "operate on what they observed, no
>matter what anyone else told them" and step forward to tell what they
>saw, without PR justifications.  
>All this deafening silence...
>"Love the truth, forgive mistakes"

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