Lisa McPherson Files - Statement of Silvia de la Vega

This is the statement of Silvia de la Vega, who spent time with Lisa McPherson at the Fort Harrison.

1                   IN THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
                           STATE OF FLORIDA
2                    STATE ATTORNEY INVESTIGATION

3

4     RE:   LISA MCPHERSON,
               Deceased.
5
      _____________________________________/
6

7
                 SWORN STATEMENT OF SILVIA DE LA VEGA
8
            TAKEN BY:         Office of State Attorney,
9                             Bernie McCabe

10                            April 3, 1997 10:30 a.m.

11          BEFORE:           Sandra A. Ambush, CSR, RMR,
                              Notary Public
12                            State of Florida at large.

13          PLACE:            Office of State Attorney
                              B-200 Criminal Justice Center
14                            Clearwater, FL

15          APPEARANCES:      MARK R. MCGARRY, JR.
                              Assistant State Attorney
16
                              ROBERT P. POLLI,
17                            Barnett Bank Plaza
                              101 East Kennedy Blvd. #3130
18                            Tampa, FL 33602
                              Attorney for Mr. Greenwood
19
                              LEE STROPE,
20                            Florida Dept of Law Enforcement

21                            WAYNE ANDREWS,
                              Clearwater Police Department
22

23
                       KANABAY COURT REPORTERS
24               TAMPA AIRPORT MARRIOTT, (813) 224-9500
               ST. PETERSBURG, CLEARWATER, (813) 821-3320
25

2
 1                  MR. POLLI: My name is Bob Polli.   I
 2    represent Silvia De La Vega. She's here pursuant to a
 3    state attorney investigation subpoena. I've discussed
 4    with Miss De la Vega the protection inherent in a state
 5    attorney subpoena, pursuant to the protection in Florida
 6    Statute 914.04.  She understands what that immunity is,
 7    and she's prepared to proceed accordingly.
 8               _________________
 9                       SILVIA DE LA VEGA,
10   the witness herein, being first duly sworn was examined
11   and testified as follows:
12                         EXAMINATION
13        BY MR. MCGARRY:
14        Q.  My name is Mark McGarry.  I'm a prosecutor
15   inquiring into the circumstances surrounding the death of
16   Lisa McPherson in November -- excuse me, December of 1995.
17   Okay?
18                  I'm going to ask you some questions about
19   the period of time involving the seventeen days prior to
20   that. I think you were involved in that, but first I'd
21   like to get some background information from you.
22                  When is your birth date?
23        A.  X 1952.
24        Q.  Okay.   And where were you born?
25        A.  Mexico City.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


3
 1          Q.   Okay.  Is De la Vega your given name?  What
 2     you -- your name you were born with?
 3          A.   Mm-hmm.
 4          Q.   It is?  Yes?  The reason why l ask is that some
 5     people get married and their names change.
 6          A.   No, that's mine.
 7          Q.   When did you first become involved with the
 8     Church of Scientology?
 9          A.   The first time I met -- met Scientology, you
10     mean?  1990.
11          Q.   1990?
12          A.   Mm-hmm.
13          Q.   Where is that?
14          A.   Mexico City.
15          Q.   And how did you become involved in the Church in
16     Mexico City?
17          A.   Because I was walking around the garden on the
18     street and I saw in the building, "Philosophy."  I said
19     "Philosophy"?  So I went to the building, and was one
20     person stand up and asking what is mean this? And she
21     says "Well, you want to see a movie?" I said, "I don't
22     have so much time."   She told me it's about twenty minute.
23     So I say "Okay."
24          Q.   All right.
25          A.   This was my first going there.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


4
 1          Q.   You joined the church then?
 2          A.   Later, yes.
 3          Q.   Okay.  In Mexico were you just a member of the
 4     Church?  Or did you actually join the staff?
 5          A.   No, I just join in the staff on the ship, when I
 6     went to -- to, how you say?  To make, or to know on the
 7     ship.  That's where I sign a contract, over there.
 8         Q.   Okay.  Can you explain?  Do you know where that
 9    is going?
10                   MR. POLLI: Kind of.    I mean, there is a
11    ship that you do courses on the ship.  She went from a
12    public to a staff, she signed the contract on the ship.
13                   MR. MCGARRY:  I got you.
14         BY MR. MCGARRY:
15         Q.   So that's when you started actually being a
16    staff member for the Church?
17         A.   I signed the contract and start one year later.
18         Q.   When was that?
19         A.   '93.
20         Q.   Okay.  And was there a time that you eventually
21    moved to Clearwater?
22         A.   No.  I -- from the ship I go back to my country
23    and spend one year, then I went to Clearwater.
24         Q.   When did you come to Clearwater?
25         A.   September 13, 1993.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


5
 1         Q.   Okay.  And why did you come to Clearwater?
 2         A.   Because we had to take some training, some
 3    courses and training here before we qualified for the --
 4    to join to the Church or know.  So we need to do that
 5    first.
 6         Q.   Okay.  And did you do that?
 7         A.   Mm-hmm.
 8         Q.   And did you live on the Church property
 9    somewhere?
10        A.   If I live?
11        Q.   Did you live on the Church property somewhere?
12        A.   Yes.  In the Hacienda.
13        Q.   In the Hacienda?
14        A.   Mm-hmm.
15        Q.   Where do you live now?  You're a back in Mexico
16   now, right?
17        A.   Yeah.
18        Q.   During November of '95 this is the period of
19   time that Lisa was staying at the cabana of the hotel?
20        A.   Mm-hmm.
21        Q.   Were you living on church property then?
22        A.   Yes.
23        Q.   Okay.  Were you a staff member for the Church at
24   that time?
25        A.   Yes.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


6
 1        Q.   Okay. What was your duties at that time?
 2        A.   I was a staff -- staff college course
 3    administrator.
 4        Q.   Administrator?  Is that what you said?
 5                 MR. POLLI:   Staff college course
 6    administrator.
 7                 MR. MCGARRY:  I got you.
 8        BY MR. MCGARRY:
 9        Q.   Did you know Lisa McPherson? Did you ever know
10    her before her stay at the cabana?
11        A.   No.
12        Q.   You did not know her?
13        A.   No.
14        Q.   How did you become involved with -- I take it
15    where we're going with this is you were involved in the
16    watch in the cabana?
17        A.   Mm-hmm.
18                  MR. POLLI:  You have to say yes or no. She
19    can't take down a um-hmm.
20                  THE WITNESS: Ah, yeah, okay.  How I was
21    in -- well, I was in my post doing my duties, and who
22    was -- Leslie Woodcraft came and says, "You're going on
23    watch."
24        BY MR. MCGARRY:
25        Q.   Who?  Who said that?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


7
 1          A.   I think the name is Leslie Woodcraft.  I mean,
 2     the house is her post.
 3                    MR. POLLI:   Leslie Woodcraft.
 4          BY MR. MCGARRY:
 5          Q.   Leslie Woodcraft?
 6          A.   Mm-hmm.
 7          Q.   Did she tell you what, what you were going to be
 8     doing?
 9          A.   She just told me that I'm going on watch just
10    for a couple of hours, to replace somebody who needs to go
11    out and eat something.   Like that, and that's it.
12         Q.   She didn't tell you who the person was, or what
13    was wrong with the person?
14         A.   Nothing.
15         Q.   Okay.  Do you remember when Leslie approached
16    you, as best you can?   I know it’s been a long time, but
17    do you remember when this person approached you and asked
18    you to do this, on the calendar?   Can she narrow that
19    down.
20                   MR. ANDREWS:   Mm-hmm.
21                   THE WITNESS:   You mean the day?
22                   MR. POLLI:   What day did Leslie come and
23    tell you you had to do the watch?
24                   THE WITNESS:   This Thursday, 23.
25                   MR. POLLI:   Thanksgiving?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


8
 1                  THE WITNESS:  Yeah.
 2        BY MR. MCGARRY:
 3        Q.   Okay.   Do you remember what time of day on
 4    Thanksgiving that was that she approached you?
 5        A.   She went around 12.  I mean --
 6        Q.   Lunch time?
 7        A.   Yeah, noon, lunch time?
 8        Q.   And did you -- did she take you where you had to
 9    go?
10        A.   Yeah.   We went to the Fort Harrison. But when
11    we walk on the street I told her well, my senior has to
12    know about this.  And I have to okay it from my senior.
13    So I come back to the Coachman, and she came with me, and
14    we went to see my senior.
15        Q.   Who's your senior?
16        A.   In that time A J. Strecker.
17        Q.   October?
18        A.   And ask her, "it's okay that I'm going to do
19    this instead of my job"?  And she said, "Yes, it's okay."
20        Q.   All right did Leslie take you to the cabana?
21        A.   Not completely.  Let's see, before I go in the
22    cabana I had to see the -- Alain Kartuzinski to receive
23    some instruction how I'm going to do.
24        Q.   Did you receive some instruction from him?
25        A.   We were looking for him, yeah. And I found on

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


9
 1   the street.   He came from lunch time. And he says well,
 2   was not agreed with the watch because it's just two hours
 3   and this is not okay change people and people and people.
 4         Q.   Okay.  So did he give you any other instructions
 5   about what her condition was, or why she was staying in
 6   the cabana?
 7         A.   No, nothing. Because he didn't approve
 8   completely that I'm going in watch just for a couple of
 9   hours.   So, she send me back with Leslie Woodcraft, I mean
10   with her, and then they were working out if I can spend
11   more time, things like that.
12              So what finally we have agreement I can go for
13   eight hours.   They accepted me. Then when they interview
14   with Alain Kartuzinski then when he gave me the data about
15   what should I read and what should I do when I was there.
16         Q.   Okay.  And what was that? What did he tell you
17   you can do while you're there?
18         A.   No talking with her for any reason.  Not
19   talking, just watching her.  Don't hurt herself, and keep
20   her in calm and feed her, give water, whatever she needs.
21   Don't talk with her, just looking after she doesn't hurt
22   herself.
23         Q.   Okay.  Did you eventually go to the cabana and
24   do that?
25         A.   First I went to the staff college to read some

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


10
 1    bulletins about what's a condition of the person.
 2        Q.   What kind of bulletins?
 3        A.   About psychotic break-down. And this was in
 4    English, so somebody start to read me.
 5        Q.   Do you not write English?
 6        A.   Not completely. It wasn't worth it.  I say I
 7    don't understand this, and she help me to clarify, things
 8    like that.
 9        Q.   Okay.
10        A.   And after that I went to the cabana.
11        Q.   What time was that?  Do you remember?
12        A.   This was, I think, around maybe three or four in
13    the afternoon.
14        Q.   Okay. And did you go out by yourself?
15        A.   No. It was another person, a young boy who went
16    with me and --
17        Q.   A what?
18        A.   A young boy.
19        Q.   Joan?
20                 MR. POLLI:  Young.
21                 THE WITNESS:  Young.
22                 MR. POLLI:  Young boy.
23                 THE WITNESS:  I have to remember now the
24    name.
25        BY MR. MCGARRY:

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


11
 1        Q.   Is it a young boy or young girl that went with
 2    you.
 3        A.   Boy, boy.
 4        Q.   A young boy?   Security?
 5        A.   No, no.  It was another person who works in HCO.
 6        Q.   Okay.   All right.  When you got to the cabana
 7    was there a security guard at the door?
 8        A.   I don't remember.
 9        Q.   Okay.   How did you get in? Do you remember
10   that?
11       A.   Because we arrive and he open the door.
12       Q.   Who is he?
13       A.   The boy.
14       Q.   Okay.
15       A.   Open the door.   And Heather was inside, Heather
16   Hoff.
17       Q.   Heather was there?
18                 MR. ANDREWS:   Heather Petzel?
19                 THE WITNESS:   Well, no. She married, okay?
20   She came to the door.  And I said I'm going to stay and
21   you, you can go out.  We talked on the outside.
22       BY MR. MCGARRY:
23       Q.   Okay.   What did you talk about?
24       A.   She just told me that she needs to eat and
                2S   they -- somebody, is going to bring the food.  And was

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


12
 1    some tablets for, and I have to give her, in this way she
 2    can sleep.
 3         Q.  What kind of tablets were they, do you know?
 4         A.  They call like a root-something.
 5         Q.  Valerian root?  Okay.   Was Heather by herself in
 6    the room with Lisa?
 7         A.  Was what?
 8         Q.  Was Heather by herself in the room with Lisa?
 9         A.  In that moment, yes.
10        Q.  And when you went in to relieve Heather, were
11   you by yourself?
12        A.  Mm-hmm, si'.  Yes.
13        Q.  And how long were you -- how long was your
14   watch?  Well, do you call it a watch or a cycle? A watch?
15        A.  Watch, yes.
16        Q.  How long was your watch?
17        A.  From that time, three or four, until three a.m.
18        Q.  And you were by yourself the entire time with
19   Lisa during that period?
20        A.  Almost, most of the time, yes.   At midnight --
21   at midnight who came?  Somebody came.  Oh, Emma. Emma
22   came and she check Lisa, then she left.   So I went, follow
23   her and I said, "Who is going to replace me?  I spend all
24   the time here."  She said "I don't know.  I don't know."
25   But in this moment she's going out, so she close the door

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


13
 1     and, okay, I come back inside the room.  I sit down in a
 2     chair.  And I was sitting there, somebody came.  I was
 3     waiting.
 4           Q.  Who eventually came?
 5           A.  Ah, later Janice Johnson came, and she spent
 6     some time with me.
 7           Q.  With you or with Lisa?
 8           A.  With me and Lisa.
 9           Q.  Okay.
10          A.  Janice told me, "You can go and sleep for a
11    while, because another person is coming to replace you."
12          Q.  What time did Janice come by?
13          A.  I think around two a.m.   I'm not sure, but it
14    was very short, because I went out at three a.m.
15          Q.  Okay.  How long did Janice spend in the room
16    with you?
17          A.  I think forty-five minutes or one hour,
18    something.
19          Q.  All right.
20          A.  Something like that.
21          Q.  And let's talk about what she did when she was
22    in the room with you.  Did Janice look after Lisa?
23          A.  Janice?
24          Q.  Yeah.  Did she talk to her, or did she help
25    Lisa?  Did she give her medicine?   Did she check her? Did

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


14
 1    she--
 2         A.    No. Liza -- or Lisa was start walking from one
 3    side to another and hit the lamp on the ceiling with her
 4    hand.  So Janice was behind her, trying to don't let her
 5    hurt herself.  And this moment Lisa start to take off her
 6    clothes, so Janice was behind her and pick-up the things
 7    that she was,  (toong) her clothes.
 8                   And Lisa tried to go to the bath room and
 9    close the door.  And Janice was in the other side, trying
10   to open.   And then Lisa open the door, then go out again,
11   and start to walk around the room.
12        Q.    Okay. When -- what were you -- I forgot to ask
13   you, when you first took over your watch at four o'clock
14   that afternoon --
15        A.    Mm-hmm.
16        Q.    What was Lisa doing at that time?
17        A.    When I came in? I don't remember if she was
18   lying on the bed or just sitting on the bed.
19        Q.    Okay. I want you to describe her as best you
20   can.   How did she look to you?
21        A.    Oh.
22        Q.    Do you remember what she was wearing? And was
23   she clean?
24              Yeah, she was.  I mean clean on her, yeah.
25   Yeah.   She was walking and talking.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


15
 1         Q.   Did she make any sense to you?   Or did she talk
 2    to you?  Or was she just talking?
 3         A.   No, she just talking.
 4         Q.   Okay.
 5         A.   And when -- was one time when she came to me and
 6    asked me what about my name.  And I just pointing out my
 7    tag to, and she --  (indicating) and that's it.   Then she
 8    start to walk again.  And says that she is an artist, so
 9    she start to singing and dancing.  So I just watching her.
10        Q.   Did she eat for you?
11        A.   If she eat?
12        Q.   Did she eat any food?
13        A.   Yeah.
14        Q.   What kind of food?
15        A.   I don't remember who it was, but they bring food
16   for her and me. And she said that she likes smashed (sic)
17   potato.  Smashed.   And that these small things, green,
18   Like a small trees -- I don't remember.   Small trees
19   green.
20                  MR. POLLI:   Broccoli.
21                  THE WITNESS:   Broccoli.  Yeah.   That what
22   she don't like it.   She didn't eat too much about it.
23   That she can played, whatever it was.    She liked more the
24   smashed potatoes.
25        BY MR. MCGARRY:

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


16
 1         Q.   Did she eat that for you?
 2         A.   Mm-hmm.  She eat by herself, because in the same
 3    time I was eating too.
 4         Q.   Okay.  And what time was that?
 5         A.   Between day time and dark.   I don't know. Maybe
 6    six, six-thirty.  I don't know about the time.
 7         Q.   Okay.  Between dinner and midnight when -- when
 8    Heather showed up -- Heather showed up at midnight, is
 9    that what you got?
10        A.   No.
11        Q.   Oh, you took over for Heather.    Emma showed up
12   at midnight?
13        A.   Mm-hmm.
14        Q.   What did she do between that time?
15        A.   What she did?  Well, she -- she went to the bed
16   and lying, and up again, start to walking, from one side
17   to another, and talking and talking.
18        Q.   Okay.  Did she eat anything else?   Drink
19   anything else?
20        A.   Yeah, she drank some water.
21        Q.   Did she ever go to sleep for you?
22        A.   No, not so much, she doesn't really go to sleep.
23   She just go to the bed and stay, oh, for one minute, two,
24   then stand up again and walking around the room.
25        Q.    Did she ever ask you, or did she ever try to

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


17
 1    leave the room?
 2        A.   Ask me? No.
 3        Q.   Did she try to leave the room?
 4        A.   One time she was -- she says her mother was
 5    waiting for her in the pool. And she saw her, like, ah,
 6    if she was looking the watch. And she says "Oh, my mother
 7    is in the pool, waiting for me."  And she stand up from
 8    the bed and go directly to the window.
 9             So I said, "What?"  So I went and stop her for
10    her arm, and I pointed her go back to the bed. And she
11    was like, "What I do now?" And then I pointed again the
12    bed, and she came -- come back to the bed and she lay
13    down.
14        Q.   Because you weren't supposed to talk to her,
15    right?
16        A.   No, I can't talk with her.
17        Q.   What did Emma come for at midnight?  Did she
18    come to help you, or just come by to visit?
19        A.   She came to check her, I think.  I don't know.
20        Q.   Okay. How long was Emma there?
21        A.   Well, just a -- no more than five minutes.
22        Q.   And Dr. Johnson came two a.m. or close to
23    thereabouts?
24        A.   Janice Johnson?
25        Q.   Yeah.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


18
 1        A.   Yeah.  Close to that.
 2        Q.   Okay.  How did Lisa react when she saw
 3    Dr. Johnson? Was she happy to see her, or do you know?
 4        A.   When she saw Janice Johnson, no.  Looks like
 5    nothing, she just keeping walking and walking.
 6        Q.   Did Lisa ever go to the bathroom in the bed,
 7    that you know of?
 8        A.   Yeah.
 9        Q.   She did?
10        A.   Yeah.
11        Q.   Did you have to clean that up?
12        A.   Yeah.
13        Q.   All right.   When was that?
14        A.   When I was in the first time with her she went
15    by herself to the bathroom. I just was follow her.   But
16    later, then I went almost full time, all the of time she
17    does -- how you say, pee, and the other, on her clothes.
18    Even if she is on the bed, or even if she was on the
19    floor, whatever.
20        Q.   Okay.  So what time did you finish that shift
21    that Thanksgiving night and the following morning? How
22    long were you there that first time?
23        A.   From three or four in the afternoon to three
24    a.m. because in this time the other persons came to send
25    me out.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


19
 1        Q.   Okay.  Who came -- Who came to help you?
 2        A.   I saw Leslie.  And I'm not sure, but was another
 3    person. I don't know.
 4        Q.   Leslie Woodcraft?
 5        A.   Mm-hmm.  I saw her.  Was the first person.  And
 6    the second person, I'm not sure who it was, Joanne Stevens
 7    or Windber-something.
 8                  MR. POLLI:  Joanne Stevens or --
 9                  THE WITNESS:  Wendber?
10                  MR. MCGARRY:  Barbara?
11                  THE WITNESS:  Barbara?  I'm not sure which
12    one.  Wendber (phonetic).
13        BY MR. MCGARRY:
14        Q.   Okay.  And so you left at three in the morning
15    or so and you went back to your post, or back to your
16    room?
17        A.   No.  I told her now, how I'm going to the
18    Hacienda? It's almost three-thirty, three o'clock.  How
19    I'm going back? And she told me after Arthur from
20    security is going to take you. So go to the security
21    place and they, Arthur, is going to take you to the
22    Hacienda. I said "Ah, good."
23        Q.   So, Arthur Baxter?
24        A.   Mm-hmm.
25                  MR. POLLI:  Yes?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


20
 1                   THE WITNESS: Yes.  Sorry.
 2        BY MR. MCGARRY:
 3        Q.    When was the next time that you were involved in
 4    the watch?
 5        A.    On Saturday, the next Saturday. I mean 25.
 6        Q.    A day later? That would be the 25th?
 7        A.    25th?  25, yeah, this one.
 8        Q.    Okay.  And what time was that that you started?
 9        A.    We had to start at nine a.m. because we are
10    going to -- how you say, relieve?
11        Q.    Mm-hmm.
12        A.    Or change.
13        Q.    Nine a.m.?
14        A.    Mm-hmm.
15        Q.    All right. And who was with you?
16        A.    Supposedly has to be Laura Arrunada with me.
17        Q.    Laura?
18        A.    Mm-hmm.
19        Q.    And was she there with you?
20        A.    She arrived later.  I mean, around one hour
21    later, or something like that.
22        Q.    And how was Lisa when you saw her on Saturday?
23        A.    She was on the bed. Yeah.  She was on the bed,
24    and I don't remember if she was sleeping or just lying on
25    the bed.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


21
 1        Q.    Okay. Do you remember who was there that you
 2    relieved?  Who left when you got there?
 3        A.    I'm not sure about who came out, but was Valerie
 4    with me, because we had to be two people, two persons.
 5    And Laura has to replace Valerie.  So Laura doesn't arrive
 6    yet, so Valerie has to be with me.  But I can't remember
 7    what -- who was the other person that came out.
 8        Q.    Okay. Can you describe -- did Lisa look better
 9    to you or worse?
10        A.    For the first time, or the second - - ah, she was
11    worse.
12        Q.    What do you mean? How worse?
13        A.    I mean, I saw her walking by herself and singing
14    and talking.  And this time she was on the bed and not --
15    no activity, nothing. And the room was empty.  I mean,
16    there was no mirrors, no lamps, nothing like that.
17        Q.    Well, why was all that gone? Because she was
18    breaking it up?
19        A.    Mm-hmm. Yes.
20        Q.    Was she talking at all when you were there on
21    Saturday?
22        A.    I don't understand.
23        Q.    Was she talking at all on Saturday? That second
24    day that you saw her?
25        A.    She was talking, but nothing like that the first

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


22
 1    time.
 2        Q.     Did you feed her?
 3        A.     Feed her?
 4        Q.     Yeah. Food?
 5        A.     No.  My -- I was cleaning her and the other
 6    person feed her.
 7        Q.     Okay. Well, did she eat?
 8        A.     An, She just take some, then split (sic) this
 9    (indicating)   split out or something like that.
10        Q.     Spit it out?
11        A.     Yeah. Mm-hmm.
12        Q.     Did she drink any water or have any -- did you
13    make her any shakes?  Or did you feed her any vitamins?
14        A.     We gave her some water and then she came split
15    (sic) it out.   But when somebody bring protein, protein
16    she like it.
17        Q.     Protein?
18        A.     Yup. And she like it.  She like this.  Then she
19    drank this.   Not so much, but just a little she drinks.
20    But she drank, drank this.
21        Q.     Okay. And how long were you there that day, on
22    the Saturday?
23        A.     I think until three in the afternoon, when I
24    was -- I went out.
25        Q.     Okay. Did Lisa look ill to you?  Or was -- how

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


23
 1    do you -- do you think she was just mentally ill?  Did she
 2    look physically ill?   Was she throwing up? Was she sick?
 3         A.    Sick? I don't know.  But she doesn't have the
 4    same brand movement that she had before.   She looked like.
 5    I don't know, tired.   I don't know.
 6         Q.    Tired? Can you describe her facial features?
 7    Or her mouth, or anything?  Was she -- do you know what
 8    the word "dehydrated" means?
 9         A.    Mm-hmm, yes, I know. No, really on that
10    Saturday, not really.
11         Q.    At three o'clock who replaced you?
12         A.    I don't know.  I can't remember that.
13         Q.    Not sure?
14         A.    No, not sure.  I couldn't remember who.
15    Somebody has to, because I went out, but I don't know who
16    it was.
17         Q.    Okay. While Laura was there in the room with
18    you, did Laura just -- do you know if Laura has some
19    medical training?   Laura from Mexico?
20         A.    Ah, Laura.  Yeah.
21         Q.    She does?  Did Laura care for Lisa more than
22    you?   I mean, did she treat her, or see if she was okay,
23    or check her pulse, or give her vitamins or medicine?
24         A.    No.  She did like me, just watching her, trying
25    to don't hurt herself, don't talk with her.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


24
 1        Q.   Did you see Dr. Johnson that day?
 2        A.   Janice Johnson, that day?   No.
 3        Q.   No?    Okay.  Did -- you don't remember who
 4    replaced you?
 5        A.   That Saturday?
 6        Q.   At three o'clock on Saturday?
 7        A.   No, I can't.
 8        Q.   No?   Do you remember who the guard was outside
 9    the door on Saturday?
10        A.   Could be Alfonso Arsenis, because that night
11    there was another?
12        Q.   Do you recall whether or not if Lisa tried to
13    leave or asked to leave the room on Saturday?
14        A.   No.   She just spent most of the time in the bed.
15        Q.   When was the next time that you participated in
16    the watch?
17        A.   Me?    On Sunday, the next day.
18        Q.   Okay.  And what time was that?
19        A.   I think was in the afternoon because -- because
20    I was sent to the Hacienda to pick-up some clothes because
21    I'm going a full time watch.   I mean, with another person
22    eight hours, and then go outside, sleep, things like that,
23    and then people comes.  But this never happened, so I
24    spent full time there.
25        Q.   So that whole next week, if you've got that

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


25
 1    calendar in front of you, from Sunday, you participated in
 2    this watch almost that whole week, right?
 3        A.   Yes.
 4        Q.   Off and on?   On and off during the day, or --
 5        A.   No.    All day and all night inside.
 6        Q.   All day and all night?
 7        A.   Yeah.
 8        Q.   When did you sleep?
 9        A.   Well, we had to be two, so sometimes I'm sleep
10    and the other person watching.  And then they -- can't
11    sleep either.   I mean, because she was talking and talking
12    and talking most of the time.  And then, even if you want
13    to sleep, you can't, so --
14        Q.   Okay.   Was Valerie -- you know Valerie, right?
15        A.   Yeah.   Valerie Demons (phonetic).
16        Q.   Demons?   She was there on Sunday also?  Do you
17    know?
18        A.   I just remember she was with me part of the
19    week, and the other part of the week with the other
20    person.
21        Q.   Do you know how the other person was?
22        A.   Yeah.   Rita Boykin.
23        Q.   Rita?
24        A.   Mm-hmm.
25        Q.   Good.   And Emma?   Was Emma ever in that room

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


26
 1    there with you?
 2        A.   No.
 3        Q.   So now we've got -- when was the last day that
 4    you -- that you spent time with Lisa?
 5        A.   Was the Saturday,  Saturday,  2 December.
 6        Q.   All the way through the 2nd   of December.  Okay.
 7    So you got a whole week to talk about here, right?
 8        A.   A whole what?
 9        Q.   You spent that whole week with Lisa?
10        A.   Yes.
11        Q.   Do you -- can you recall each one of those days?
12    Can you separate each day? Or they all blend together?
13        A.   No, because when your inside and don't know what
14    is time, or what day.  You lose.
15        Q.   Well, I can appreciate that.    That's why I asked
16    that question, because this is a year and a half ago or
17    more.
18             How many times during this period that you were
19    watching Lisa did Dr. Johnson stop by?
20        A.   Janice Johnson?  I saw her,   the first one was
21    when I went on watch, and then I saw her one time more.
22        Q.   One other time?
23        A.   This just -- I'm sure about one time.    But I'm
24    not sure of more.
25        Q.   More?   Can you describe how Lisa was doing

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


27
 1    during this week? Was she getting better, or was she
 2    getting worse?
 3         A.  She -- she was refusing eat or drink, even the
 4    protein shake she was refusing. So we tried to feed her.
 5    I mean, Rita tried to feed her, to feed her, but she just
 6    spit it out, whatever. Or she'd sometimes keep in her
 7    mouth and then turn the head, and out.  (Indicating)
 8         Q.  So how was her physical condition?  Was she
 9    still talking and walking around?
10         A.  She spend most of the time on the floor. We put
11    back her (sic) on the bed, but she came to the floor
12    again. And then moving on the floor from one side to
13    another. I mean, like around.  Do pee on everything, on
14    the floor. And talking and talking, but like she was
15    talking with a persons, another persons. She was named
16    some banana (sic) or other names. I don't know.
17         Q.  Excuse me.   (Phone rings.) Sorry for that.
18             During that week did she ever try to leave? Or
19    ask you to leave the room?
20         A.  No.
21         Q.  Do you remember anything specific about that
22    week that you spent all this time with Lisa, that she did
23    anything that I've forgotten to ask you, anything that
24    sounded important? Did she -- did she eat or drink at all
25    during that week?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


28
 1         A.   No.  She is going refusing, refused every day or
 2    every time, more.  I mean, was more difficult try to feed
 3    her.  We change, we give water, we try to give calma (sic)
 4    we try to give the protein shake.  We tried with a smashed
 5    potato because I tell the guy, the security guy she like
 6    it.  Even that, uh-uh you, she doesn't try to eat
 7    nothing.
 8         Q.   Okay.  Was she getting weaker?
 9         A.   Mean lose strong, thing like that?
10         Q.   Was she -- yeah, was she losing her strength?
11         A.   Mm-hmm.
12         Q.   Did you -- were you around when Dr. or Janice
13    Johnson gave her a shot?
14         A.   Yeah, I was there when Janice Johnson came. And
15    she had something like blue color in the - - how you call
16    it?  The shop?
17         Q.   Shot?  In a shot?
18         Q.   Mm-hmm.
19         Q.   Do you remember what day that was?
20         A.   No.
21         Q.   You don't remember what day that was?
22         A.   Exactly, no.  Because even now I don't know
23    exactly was -- I mean, you ask me for the 26, 27, or the
24    -- you lose the time over there.
25         Q.   I understand.  And did Janice Johnson ever tell

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


29
 1    you what was in that shot?
 2         A.  I'm not sure.   I'm not sure if she told me, or
 3    what she told me, but I just see when she put.
 4         Q.  Did she put it in Lisa's arm?
 5         A.  No, um --
 6         Q.  In her hip?
 7         A.  Behind.
 8         Q.  What -- How was Lisa reacting when that
 9    happened?
10        A.  Lisa was on the floor.  Was one person holding
11   her, because she's (bamm) (bamm) doing this in this way.
12   So one person was holding her arms and another person was
13   holding the legs.
14        Q.  Mm-hmm?
15        A.  And after that shot, she's still in the -- on
16   the floor, she was moving and things like that.  That's
17   what I remember.
18        Q.  Okay.  Did she -- did she eventually go to sleep
19   from that shot?
20        A.  I don't know if it was for that shot, but she
21   she start to sleep more.  I mean, not very long periods,
22   but she start to sleep a little more.
23        Q.  Okay.  And you went all the way to December 2nd?
24   Did -- how come you didn't go any further than that?  How
25   come you didn't stay with Lisa after December 2nd?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


30
 1         A.   How came?
 2         Q.   How come?
 3         A.   Oh, because I just start to feel tired.   So I --
 4    I fall asleep.   I'm going to sleep, and so Lisa tried to
 5    pull the lamp, or the heater, I don't remember which one,
 6    so she make a little noise and I wake up, I say,  "Jesus,
 7    she can hurt herself."  So I'm not doing good.
 8              So I wrote a report about what was happen.  So
 9    that's not okay.  I spent a lot of time, so I need to go
10    out, at least to sleep for a while.
11         Q.   Okay.   Did you write reports in handwriting
12    about all of these days that you spent with Lisa?
13         A.   Not all these days. These reports saying what
14    was happen, and that is no very safe if I'm tired to keep
15    and eye on her.
16         Q.   Did you write any of these reports?
17         A.   I what?
18                   MR. POLLI:  Reports. We looked at, we
19    looked through these.  I guess just ask how many reports
20    did you write?   That might be easier.
21         BY MR. MCGARRY:
22         Q.   Okay.   That's fine. How many reports did you
23    write?
24         A.   How many?   Three.
25         Q.   Okay.   Do you want to go through there and see

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


31
 1    if they're in there? Are they in there? Do you know if
 2    they're in there or not?  Do you write in English or
 3    Spanish?
 4         A.   I wrote one in English and another, when she
 5    tried to plug the lamp, I think I did in Spanish because
 6    was hard for me without a dictionary.
 7         Q.   Mm-hmm?
 8         A.   And the last one, I'm not sure it was in English
 9    or Spanish.  I don't know.
10         Q.   Do you see any of yours in there?
11         A.   No, I don't see my letter. Just my name here.
12    All the time I put my name at the end.
13         Q.   Okay.  Who did you give those reports to?
14         A.   The first one that I wrote I think I gave to
15    Janice Johnson.  The second one, when she tried to plug
16    the heater or the lamp, I don't remember, but I give to
17    somebody.  I don't remember who.
18         Q.   Okay.  So you don't have them any more?
19         A.   I don't have what?
20         Q.   You don't have the reports?
21         A.   No.  I --
22         Q.   You gave them to the Church? Do you mind if we
23    read them if we can get them?  Do you mind if we read
24    them and get them from the Church?
25         A.   No.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


32
 1        Q.   No?   Okay. Can you describe the condition of
 2    Lisa on the last day you were there, on the 2nd  of--
 3    Saturday the 2nd of November -- or December, excuse me.
 4        A.   She was on the floor and she was -- she did pee
 5    and the other, so I had to clean her. I had to change
 6    everything and clean her with the towels and things like
 7    that to her, because she wasn't able to walk.   And very
 8    heavy to -- for me to carry to the bathroom.  So I bring
 9    everything on the floor next to her. I take off the dirty
10    clothes, I clean her, and I put a new, a clean clothes on
11    her, and I try to put her on the bed, but then she, shoop,
12    (noise) came to the floor again.
13                   So then I put all the dirty clothing in a
14    plastic bag, and with a towel I cleaned the floor because
15    smells blah, bad.  And, um, and Rita was in the bed, the
16    other bed.  So I take the things out the door and somebody
17    pick it up, to clean.
18        Q.   Now, she couldn't -- she couldn't walk on the
19    2nd on that day?   Could she walk?
20        A.   No.   She is spend most of the time on the floor.
21    And she doesn't try to walk or something like that.
22        Q.   Was she talking?
23        A.   Yeah, all the time she was talking.
24        Q.   Was she on the floor because she couldn't get
25    up? Or was she on the floor because she wanted to be on

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


33
 1    the floor? Do you understand what I mean?
 2             Mm-hmm. Well, I don't know.  Maybe she feels
 3    better on the floor. I don't know. Because we put on the
 4    bed, and then she start to do this, this way, and goes to
 5    the floor. That's what all the time, all that she did.
 6             Sometimes she participates and you take her arm
 7    and try to put on the bed, and she more or less walk or
 8    stand up and go to the bed. But she then start to -- I
 9    don't know the name -- in Spanish. Goes to the floor
10    again and she start on the floor.
11        Q.   But she'd move around on the floor?
12        A.   Mm-hmm, si'.
13        Q.   Yes?
14        A.   Yes.  Sorry.
15        Q.   Did you go to a -- ah, did you go to a meeting?
16    Do you know who Marcus Quirino is?
17        A.   I know him, yeah.  I know him.
18        Q.   Did you to go a meeting after Lisa died?
19        A.   Yes, we went to the fifth floor.
20        Q.   Okay. And why -- who called you up there?
21        A.   Who called us?   I don't know who gave the order,
22    but the security guy went, told me - - picked me up at the
23    Hacienda.
24        Q.   Why'd you go to up the fifth floor?
25        A.   To write, to make the report of what happened.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


34
 1        Q.    Did you write another report then?
 2        A.    No that's the --
 3        Q.    Huh?
 4        A.    That's the only report I wrote. I mean, the
 5    last one.
 6        Q.    You wrote -- did you write a report for him?
 7        A.    Ah, for him? Ah, for him I wrote a report, but
 8    I don't remember to who I gave.
 9        Q.    Okay.  Do you recall Lisa eating anything at all
10    on December 2nd,  the Saturday, your last Saturday?
11        A.    I remember Rita tried to give her some food that
12    morning, because we put her on the bed and I hold her
13    arms, because in this way Rita can put something in her
14    mouth.  But she just looking to the ceiling and then spit
15    it out, again the things out. So we have to clean again.
16        Q.    Okay.  Um, they have a couple of questions for
17    you also, that I always forget to ask.  So if you don't
18    mind, go ahead.
19                   MR. ANDREWS: Yeah.  I just have a couple
20    of little ones.
21                           EXAMINATION
22        BY MR. ANDREWS:
23        Q.    Who -- While you were there all the time, who
24    was responsible?   Who would you report to, or who was
25    responsible to make decisions about Lisa's care?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


35
 1        A.   I don't know.  The other person, I mean, Rita
 2    Boykin wrote the reports, and say -- I don't know who.
 3        Q.   If you needed help -- you were there alone at a
 4    certain time, if you needed help and with Lisa, who would
 5    you go to to get help?
 6        A.   Was a person outside the door.
 7        Q.   A security guard?
 8        A.   Mm-hmm..
 9        Q.   So you would go to that person?
10        A.   Mm-hmm, si'.
11        Q.   At any time when you took care of Lisa, did you
12    ever feel that she may need medical help? I mean physical
13    medical help?
14        A.   When I saw that she was refusing eat and drink,
15    and when she -- when we put some food she, spit it out,
16    and she was getting weak, I think I thought we need to do
17    something. Or feed her in another way.   That's what I
18    thought, but I never did something about that. I mean,
19    you no, I don't have
20        Q.   Okay.  But you did think -- you saw her over
21    several days, so you had an opportunity to see Lisa on
22    Thanksgiving?
23        A.   Mm-hmm.
24        Q.   Which is early into her stay there, where she
25    comes -- she just came there not too far from there, and

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


36
 1   then to December 2nd.  So you're saying that basically her
 2   medical condition went down, but -- but you didn't get
 3   ahold of anybody to fix that?
 4                 MR. POLLI:   Do you understand all that?
 6        Q.   I'm trying not to make it too hard.   I guess,
 7   yes -- just a yes or no.  Did Lisa's medical condition
 8   decline from the first time you saw her, until the last
 9   time you saw her?   And I mean, get worse?
10        A.   She lose strong.  I mean, she looks like losing
11   weight.
12        Q.   Okay.  Losing weight and getting weaker, I think
13   you said earlier?
14        A.   Weaker, yeah.
15        Q.   Okay.  Rita Boykin wrote in her report -- I
16   don't know if you had a chance to read it -- somewhere's
17   around Friday, which would have been the 1st of December,
18   that you were very solid (sic) and that you weren't much
19   help.  And that you couldn't -- she couldn't spend enough
20   time with you to help, so she called the security guard.
21   Could you tell us what that was all about?
22        A.   I was completely tired.  I need to really go out
23   and get some -- just really some time to sleep without
24   this, than to try to sleep and then go again.   I just feel
25   tired, I need to go out.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


37
 1        Q.   So you're saying somewhere's around maybe the
 2    25th of November -- 25th of November through the 2nd of
 3    December, you were there around the o'clock?
 4             Is that what I'm getting, Mr. Polli? She was
 5    there around the o’clock?
 6        A.   Mm-hmm. You mean all the time?
 7        Q.   All the time.
 8        A.   Yeah.
 9        Q.   So you ate there, you slept there?
10        A.   Like we are two people. The next room you can
11    go and eat something fast.
12        Q.   In the housekeeping room?
13        A.   Yeah, exactly.
14        Q.   Okay. All right.  But you were assigned there
15    and never left?
16        A.   No.
17                  MR. ANDREWS: Okay.  Thank you.  I don't
18    have any more.
19                        EXAMINATION
20        BY MR. STROPE:
21        Q.   Do you have any medical training?
22        A.   No.  I'm an accountant.
23        Q.   No medical training at all?
24        A.   No.
25        Q.   You said that Emma came one time to check Lisa?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


38
 1        A.   Yeah, the first day that I was there.
 2        Q.   What did she do?
 3        A.   I told her I need to go to the bathroom.
 4        Q.   Mm-hmm?
 5        A.   I just saw her going to Lisa's bed, so I went to
 6   the bathroom.  And when I came out she was like touching
 7   her, like in trying to find that she has fever, or what I
 8   don't know.  And that's it. That's what I saw.
 9        Q.   Check her pulse, or --
10        A.   I don't know if she did it when I was in the
11   bathroom.
12        Q.   Oh, you were in the bathroom?
13        A.   Yeah.
14        Q.   Did you ever check to see if she had a fever?
15   Did you do that?
16        A.   Yeah.  I touch her, because I have to clean her,
17   things like that, but no, I don't know.
18        Q.   Around the last day that you were there, did she
19   have a fever then?
20        A.   Last day, you mean Saturday?
21        Q.   Yeah.  The 2nd?
22        A.   I don't know.
23        Q.   You never touched her to see?
24        A.   Yeah,  I had to clean her because she did peep
25   (sic) and everything.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


39
 1         Q.  Was she sweating?
 2         A.  No.
 3         Q.  You said one time she took off all her clothes
 4    and she was walking around?
 6         Q.  How did her body look?  Did she have any
 7    bruising?
 8         A.  Not that day, no.
 9         Q.  Marks?  Nothing?   Nothing you could see then?
10    That was early on, right? That was --
11         A.  That was the first day that I was --
12         Q.  When you -- you stated that you were there for
13    five or six days, or seven days in a row, and there was a
14    guard outside the door all that time?
15         A.  Yes.  Was one on the day time and another in the
16    night.
17         Q.  Okay.  Who was there in the day time?
18         A.  In the day time was Alfonso Barcenas.
19         Q.  And who was there at night?
20         A.  Sam Geyoria.   (Phonetic)
21         Q.  Alfonso has already talked to us and he's told
22    us on a minimum, at least twice a day, Janice Johnson came
23    to visit twice in his shift.  I'm sorry, his shift was
24    fifteen or sixteen hours, whatever it was.  But twice in
25    his shift, each day that he was there, Janice Johnson came

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


40
 1    to visit Lisa. Do you agree with that?
 2        A.   I just remember when she came to put the shot on
 3    the first day that I was there. When she -- Lisa was
 4    taking off her clothes and she was behind her.  I'm not
 5    sure about the rest.
 6        Q.   All right.   Are you a friend of Janice Johnson?
 7        A.   I know her from the Church.
 8        Q.   Mm-hmm.   But are you personal friends?  Do you
 9    work together?
10        A.   No.  Before this, no.
11        Q.   Not before this?
12        A.   (Shakes head.)
13        Q.   Have you talked to Janice Johnson since this
14    happened?
15        A.   Since, how -- how soon?
16        Q.   Recently.   Since -- Since -- Since Lisa passed
17    away have you talked to Janice Johnson about this?
18        A.   I talk with her Sunday, the third one, December,
19    and ask her how was Lisa doing. And she was doing better
20    because she was -- she start to eat and sleep more.  And I
21    said "Wow, that's good."
22        Q.   She told you that?
23        A.   Yeah.  I was in the MLO Office, in the
24    reception, and she came, and I ask her, Did you see Lisa
25    today? How she's doing?  And she went to the back and sit

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


41
 1   down and says, "She is doing better."  She -- She eats
 2   some. She ate some, and she can sleep some.   So she's
 3   doing better.
 4       Q.   Of course, you were with her on the 2nd  and she
 5   wasn't doing so good, right?
 6       A.   On the 2nd?   (Shakes head.)
 7       Q.   No.   And on the 3rd she was doing better?
 8       A.   Yeah, but I left the 2nd, in the --
 9       Q.   Right.
10        A.   -- afternoon.
11        Q.   But what I'm getting at is you visited her last
12    time on the 2nd,  December 2nd?
13        A.   If I was with Lisa, yeah.
14        Q.   And she wasn't doing so good that day?
15        A.   No.   She was on the floor.
16        Q.   And then Dr. Johnson tells you on the 3rd she
17    was doing better?
18        A.   On the third, or Monday?   One of two, these
19    days.
20        Q.   And on the 5th she passed away?
21        A.   On the 5th what?
22        Q.   She passed away?
23                   MR. MCGARRY: Died.
24                   MR. POLLI:  She died.
25        BY MR. STROPE:

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


42
 1        Q.   Right?
 2        A.   Yeah. I know about that.
 3        Q.   Did you talk to Dr. Johnson after Lisa died?
 4        A.   If I talk with Janice Johnson? No.
 5        Q.   Have you talked to anybody, aside from your
 6    attorney, about your testimony today?
 7        A.   Not -- just with my attorney.
 8        Q.   Anybody else at the Church?
 9        A.   On the church? No.
10        Q.   Have you seen your reports since Lisa died, that
11    you wrote?
12        A.   Nope.
13        Q.   You haven't seen them?
14        A.   Nope.
15        Q.   But you did reports, right?
16        A.   Yeah.
17        Q.   Did you ever hear of the drug chlorohydrate, a
18    sleeping pill?
19        A.   It's a -- I heard for the second time, because I
20    heard when he was asking to Laura. Before that, no.
21        Q.   Did -- did Janice Johnson ever give Lisa a
22    sleeping pill?
23        A.   The same that was in the bottle?
24        Q.   Mm-hmm.
25        A.   Inside the room, the root?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


43
 1          Q.  No, not Valerian root, a sleeping pill.  There
 2    were any other tablets or pills that you gave to Lisa?
 3          A.  No, just that, that root.  I mean, no, I don't
 4    know if it was others.  I don't know.
 5          Q.  Did you ever have a pill that you had to squeeze
 6    into Lisa's mouth a little bit, like a gel cap?  Do you
 7    know what that is?  It's got a little gelatin in it, a
 8    soft stuff?
 9          A.  No.
10          Q.  You never did that, squeeze it in there?
11          A.  No.   I give this to her just two root, and was
12    the first day.   I mean Thursday. Because she took by -- I
13    put in her hand and I make movement, and it showed to her
14    to put in her mouth and drink.  So she did, and drink some
15    water, and then I -- I saw her and I say, like that, "show
16    me" and she opened her mouth and I said "ah," and then
17    that's all.
18          Q.  You said the last day that you were with her she
19    was lying on the floor?
20          A.  On the floor, yeah.
21          Q.  And then you tried to put her on the bed?
22          A.  Yeah.   Because Rita is going to give her some
23    banana, like on a spoon, something like that.
24          Q.  We have people that described her then as lying
25    on her back with her eyes open.  Is that the way she was?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


44
 1    Was she staring at the ceiling?
 2         A.  Yes.  She's looking at the ceiling.
 3         Q.  So her eyes are open?
 4         A.  Yeah.
 5         Q.  Okay.
 6         A.  Si'.
 7         Q.  And they describe her breathing as really
 8    labored, like (indicating) heavy breathing.  Is that the
 9    way she was breathing?
10         A.  Oh -- Yes.
11         Q.  Okay.   So she's lying on her bed, she's staring
12    at the ceiling, and she is breathing heavily, and you're
13    trying to feed her?
14         A.  Not breathing heavily.  So that's why Rita do
15    the banana this way, and gave to her.   But she spit it out
16    and then --
17         Q.  Could it be that she didn't spit it out, that
18    she was choking and she had to get it out of there, other
19    than just a constant spitting out?
20         A.  Spitting out, spitting out the banana?   Yeah.
21         Q.  Could it be that she was spitting it out because
22    she was choking?
23         A.  No, because she doesn't want to eat.
24         Q.  Okay.   Was there a phone in the room?
25         A.  No.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


45
 1         Q.   Did you have a walkie-talkie?  Do you know what
 2    those are?
 3         A.   In the next room was a phone, in the
 4    housekeeping.
 5         Q.   How did you communicate with the guard outside
 6    the door?
 7         A.   Go into the next room and --
 8         Q.   Just knock on the doors?
 9         A.   Ah, yes.
10         Q.   So you just, if you wanted Alfonso, you'd knock
11    on the door and he'd come in?
12         A.   We went to the door, or move the curtains, he --
13         Q.   And he was right there?
14         A.   Yeah, open and come.
15         Q.   So if you needed help he was right there all the
16    time?  You could, "come on in, help me"?
17         A.   Mm-hmm.
18         Q.   Could you leave whenever you wanted to?
19         A.   Yeah.
20         Q.   You could leave her alone?
21         A.   Yeah.   But I can't do it. So I had to be there
22    watching her.
23         Q.   So you had to stay?
24         A.   Yeah.
25         Q.   Were you ordered to do this watch?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


46
 1        A.    Yes.
 2        Q.    It wasn't a voluntary thing?
 3        A.    Well, they asked for help and they --
 4        Q.    And you volunteered?
 5        A.    They say, "We need to do this watch" and I was
 6    agreed for a few hours, and then --
 7        Q.    Would you do it again?
 8        A.    Yeah. When they told me it's going to be on a
 9    full time and say she was not completely well.  Okay, she
10    needs help.  Okay? So I'm going.
11        Q.    Would you do it again?
12        A.    Ah, wow. It was like a nightmare, um --
13        Q.    What -- what would you do differently? What
14    should have been done?
15        A.    What, what?
16        Q.    What should have been done to make Lisa alive
17    today and not die? What should have been done?
18        A.    I don't know.
19        Q.    Anybody ever say, "Maybe we should take her to a
20    hospital"?
21        A.    No, nobody told us, talk about that.
22        Q.    Did that ever enter your mind, to take her to a
23    hospital?
24        A.    I thought she needs more help when I saw her
25    losing weight and things like that, but I thought maybe we

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


47
 1   can just, you know, another way to feed her and she don't
 2   refuse.   I don't know.
 3        Q.   What would be another way to feed her?
 4        A.   Because we give -- well, the other person give
 5   the food to her with a spoon and she spit it out. I don't
 6   know.  I don't know, instead of give the vitamins  maybe
 7   something like a, what you call, shot.
 8        Q.   Shots?
 9        A.   Like a vitamins or --
10        Q.   Did you suggest that to -- to Dr. Johnson?
11        A.   To Janice Johnson?  No.
12        Q.   Did anyone suggest that maybe that she should
13   get shots?
14        A.   Well, I don't really know which was the best
15   way.   I mean, I don't know.
16        Q.   You're not a medical person, you don't know
17   that, right?
18        A.   No, so -- no, I don't know.
19        Q.   So you were counting on someone else to make
20   that decision?
21        A.   Yeah.  I just my -- I had to be there, watch,
22   clean-up and that's all.
23        Q.   You're just a guardian, so to speak, to watch
24   her and clean her?  You aren't a medical doctor?
25        A.   No.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


48
 1         Q.  But if there was a medical emergency, who would
 2    handle that?
 3         A.  Has to be somebody.   Alain Kartuzinski, maybe --
 4         Q.  Well, Alain Kartuzinski?   He's not a doctor, is
 5    he?
 6         A.  No, but he can talk with some doctor outside or
 7    Church, or --
 8         Q.  So it would be up to him to send her to the
 9    hospital?
10         A.  I think.
11         Q.  You couldn't do that?
12         A.  I?  No.
13         Q.  You couldn't say,  "Look, I'm taking this girl to
14    the hospital."
15         A.  No, I can't.
16         Q.  Someone else had to make that decision for you?
17    She went like this. (Indicating.)
18         A.  Oh, yeah.   I'm sorry.  No, I can't make that
19    decision, somebody else.
20         Q.  Somebody else had to make that?   Who was in
21    charge of this whole watch?  Who was the Number One
22    person?
23         A.  It's very hard to say, because was many people
24    involved.  I mean, the -- who is the top officer, Alain
25    Kartuzinski.

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


49
 1                  MR. POLLI:  Slow down.
 2                  THE WITNESS:  Sorry.  So I don't know who
 3    was in the Number One, or the in charge.
 4         BY MR. STROPE:
 5         Q.   Who set your schedule? Who told you when you
 6    had to work?
 7         A.   The cop officer, Olivier, Geyora (phonetic)
 8    Jelatka somebody in HCO show me like a paper, so it say:
 9    "From this time to this time, these two ladies."  "From
10    this time to this time, these two lady."  And this other,
11    and this other.
12         Q.   So there was a written schedule?
13         A.   Supposedly.
14         Q.   And who wrote that schedule?
15         A.   I don't know.
16         Q.   You just name gave a name, it wasn't familiar to
17    me.  What is that name?
18         A.   It's a cop officer, Geyora, Jelat --
19         Q.   Oh, okay.  Okay.  So he was in charge of
20    scheduling?
21         A.   He show me the paper with this when I went to
22    the shift (sic) and he told me how is going to work these
23    watch. He said, well, we are going to have time to go
24    outside, take food, sleep for a few hours, then coming
25    back?

                           KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320


50
           1         Q.   Didn't work out that way, huh?
           2         A.   No.
           3         Q.   Okay.  So he was in charge of scheduling.  There
           4    is a possibility that Alain Kartuzinski was in charge of
           5    maybe the watch?
           6              Who was in charge of the medical problems that
           7    Lisa may have?
           8         A.    I don't know.
           9         Q.   Well, who would you think would be in charge of
           10   that, that part of the watch?
           11        A.   Who, I think?  The MLO Office.
           12        Q.    So you would call the front office if Lisa got
           13   sick?  Is that what you're saying?
           14                  MR. POLLI:  The MLO Office.
           15        BY MR. STROPE:
           16        Q.    Oh, the MLO, office.
           17        A.    Yeah. M-L --
           18        Q.    Oh, okay. I didn't get that.   I didn't
           19   understand.
           20        A.    Yeah, go there and say well, or something.
           21        Q.    And who would they send?
           22        A.    Who would they send? Was Emma or Janice.
           23        Q.    Emma or Janice? Does Emma have medical
           24   training?
           25        A.    I don't know. I'm not sure about that.

                        KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320

51
           1        Q.  Okay.   She's not a nurse or a doctor or --
           2        A.  If I saw something writing.  No, I don't
           3   remember.
           4        Q.  One more thing and then I'll finish.   You said
           5   on the last day she was -- and correct me if I'm
           6   mistaken -- but you said she was on the floor and she
           7   couldn't walk.  She was too weak to walk?
           8        A.  She was on the floor, yes.
           9        Q.  And could she get up and walk to the window?
          10        A.  But she doesn't try to stand up and go outside
          11   or go to the bed, nothing.
          12        Q.  No.   I mean December 2nd,  I'm talking about
          13   December 2nd, your last day there?
          14        A.  December, yeah.
          15        Q.  Was she able to get up and walk out?
          16        A.  She was on the floor, and we put back on the
          17   bed.
          18                  MR. POLLI: Listen to his question.  He's
          19   not saying did she do that? Did she get up and walk.
          20   He's asking could she?  Did she have the strength to get
          21   up and walk, is what he's trying -- could she have walked
          22   to the bed by herself, if she wanted to?
          23                  THE WITNESS: If she wanted to?   I don't
          24   think so.
          25                  MR. STROPE: Okay.   Thank you.  I don't

                        KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320

52

 1    have anything else.

 2                  MR. ANDREWS:  Thank you very much.

 3                  THE WITNESS:  Welcome.

 4               CONCLUDED APPROXIMATELY 12:05 P.M.

 5

 6

 7

 8

 9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25


                         KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320

53


 1                           CERTIFICATE OF OATH

 2     STATE OF FLORIDA        )

 3     COUNTY OF PINELLAS      )

 4              I, the undersigned authority, certify that
      SILVIA DE LA VEGA personally appeared before me and was
 5    duly sworn.

 6              WITNESS my hand and official seal this 9th day
      of April, l997.
 7

 8       (stamped seal)

 9
                                (signature)
10                           Sandra A. Ambush, CSR, RMR,
                             Notary Public - State of Florida.
11
                     REPORTER' S CERTIFICATE
12

13    STATE OF FLORIDA        )

14    COUNTY OF PINELLAS      )

15              I, Sandra A. Ambush, Registered Professional
      Reporter, certify that I was authorized to and did
16    stenographically report the statement of SILVIA DE LA
      VEGA; that a review of the transcript was not requested;
17    and that the transcript is a true and complete record of
      my stenographic notes.
18
                I further certify that I am not a relative,
19    employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor
      am I a relative or employee of any of the parties'
20    attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I
      financially interested in the action.
21
                DATED this 9th day of April, 1997.
22

23
                            (signature)
24                        Sandra A. Ambush
                          CSR, RPR, CMR.
25


               KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - (813) 821-3320