Lauren and Hervé Hiver (1½)

Canadian twin babies mutilated in Denmark


From: zerpe@wineasy.se (Sten-Arne Zerpe)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Babysitter killed the twins
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:51:24 GMT

The Swedish newspaper Expressen Reports Sep 30 1996, that  two small
children were killed,  and mutilated with a pair of scissors.
Saturday evening by their babysitter. The drama took place in Amager,
Copenhagen, Denmark. The newspaper goes on saying that the babysitter
was a 47-yers old russian born italian citizen. She came to Denmark
1992. The newspaper claimes that she is a member of the church of
Scientology, through the church she got aquainted with a
Frensh-Canadian family on Amager. They needed help with babysitting.

My comment: This is a terrible story. The woman is in custody and is
going to go through psychiatric evaluation. I bet the Co$ is going to
deny that she was a member........

Violence is never any solution. This evening, this is more evident
than ever. I also refer to the Portland  Oregon shooting. I wonder if
this is a trend? Has the Co$ finally reached the stage where they
cant' any longer see what's happening. One shall never mess around
with peoples minds, unless one have a working technology. It's obvious
that the Co$ should have seen what was coming if they had working
tech.

If I was religious, I would pray for the victims family. Since I'm
not, I'll just have a silent minute here in my home.
Sten-Arne Zerpe
--------------------------------------------------------------
Victimized by the Co$. "Deadfiled" in the Stockholm Org. Seen
too much, heard to much, lived too much. Security Coded hard
disks too much. As Arnold said: I'll be back.......
--------------------------------------------------------------




From: rs109681@cybernet.dk (Sara)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Babysitter killed the twins
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 13:58:54 GMT

The first of 4 articles from BT somehow realated to the killing of the twins or
Scientology itself here in Denmark. English isn´t my first language, but I have
tried the best I could to translate what was written.

On Tue october the 1st the Danish newspaper BT reports regarding the killing of
twins:

The former chairman of the Danish Psychiatric Society, Psychiatris Niels Reisby
have made the following comment to the fax the parents have made in cooperation
with Scientology and sent to BT.

"It is a cruel exploitation of a very tragic situation"

In the fax it says among other things:

"It is just now that we have found out the babysitter have been under
psychiatric care. It´s why she have killed our children."

Just like the cult of Scientology, the parents are savage suppressors of any
form of psychiatric care and in the fax they urge the authorities to stop all
kind of psychiatric care.

Futhermore Niels Reisby states, " I can´t see any connection with Danish
psychiatry in this case. Especially not when the Russian woman never have been
treated in this country"

The present chairman of Danish Psychiatric Society, Raben Rosenberg follow the
line of his collauge but don´t want to make a direct comment to the parent´s
statement. "Their statement have to speak for itself."

The Church of Scientology have made a close shelter around Debbie and Amié
Hiver, the parent to the killed twins.
The loyal couple, who are members of Scientology are being cared for by the
church. The "handling", as it is used in Scientology terms, of the deep grief
have already started without help from the established world of counseling.

Instead the church have started it´s own program. The only thing, which in their
eyes are able to help the parents.

The first days have been spent with talk, sleep and eating food as the mother
Debbie Hiver makes on her own.

" We have told, that she has to start working as soon as possible. And she is
already doing a lot better", claims Leisa Goodmann a good friend of the couple
and PR-worker for the Church of Scientology.

Futhermore Leisa Goodman states "It´s sure we can help them to get through the
grief. Our methods are 100% sure"

The treatment consist of sessions with scientologists who talk with the parents
individually. In the treatment they use a so called E-Meter, an invention which
should be able to mesure the mental state of the person and find the unbalances
and thereafter the unbalance can be handled.

The E-Meter are by Scientology critics described as one of the cults biggest
gags.

The psychiatric consultant on the hospital in Herlev Prof. Mogens Mellergaard
are very sceptical about the method used by Scientology. "It can be very
dangerous for the couple"

Mogens Mellergaard says, " You have to to extremely well equipped to make crises
intervention. It´s almost a course for itself, which demand a huge amont of
knowledge. A lot of things have to be fulfilled before it´s safe. If things goes
wrong, the parents are in a risk for a total breakdown"

Still he won´t make a total rejection of what Scientology are doing.

"I understands that their help are based on a lot of talking and that the parent
are closely committed to this organisation. In a situation like this it is
always important to have support nearby. Unfortunately there are many black
spots on the map where you can´t get help in crises, because not enough people
know how to do it"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article nr 2:

Chech the background of your babysitter.

More than anything else in this world Debbie and Aimé Hiver want their children
back. But it is a wish which can never be fulfilled.

The little boy and girl managed to get a year and a half before an insane woman
brutally killed them Sat evening.

Leisa Goodman(close friend and spokeswoman for the couple) says, "Debbie and
Aimé will never get a full recovery and understadable they feel a big grief at
the moment"

In a fax posted to BT Debbie and Aimé describes their sorrow, but they have not
enough strenght to speak publicly.


"It is just now that we have found out the babysitter have been under
psychiatric care. It´s why she have killed our children. She is a victim
herself" and in an appeal to all parents they futher says, "Check the
credentials before you leave your children to a babysitter"

Debbie and Aimé Hiver thought they knew their babysitter. In the last few months
the 47 year old woman had lived with the family on Amager in Copenhagen.
The twns and their older brothers were obviously very happy for the woman who
took care of them while their parents worked to late in the evening.

"Thank God the big boys weren´t at home when she killed the twins", says Leisa
Goodman who met the Canadian born Debbie Hiver in Los Angeles 11 years ago.

Debbie Hiver have lived in Copenhagen for some years, where she was one of the
persons behing the restoration of the Scientology owned house in Jernbanegade.
It was here she met her french husband Aimé who also is a member of the cult.

In their fax the couple writes, "In our sorrow we appeal to the authorities to
find out if psychiatric care really does any good"

Just like the cult of Scientology, the parents are savage suppressors of any
form of psychiatric care and in the fax they urge the authorities to stop all
kind of psychiatric care.

"We believe that psychiatric care only makes things worse and can have an
influence on people to kill. That why we are asking the authorities to stop all
psychiatric care"; writes the couple.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article 3:

But she was allowed to work for free!

Cheap exploitation could be the reason why the 47 year old Russian born woman
this Sat went mad and killed the twins. The woman was denied membership in the
cult of Scientology, but they could use her as a free "slave."
It was also as a free "slave" the woman moved in with the family.

Since her arrival to Denmark 4 years ago the woman had tried several times to
get a full membership of the Cult of Scientology. But the cult didn´t want her.

Under the first interview she told honestly that she had been in psychiatric
care in Italy years back. The woman don´t remember for how long, but though that
she has been unconsious for some days. That piece of information Scientology
didn´t like.

To become a member of the cultit is required that you never have been near pills
or psychiatrists which Scientology believes are the worst enemy to the human
being.
For 40 years Scientology have tried to prove that psychiatry is the worst and
most cruel treatment.

Scientology believes that psychiatrists makes the ill even more ill and that a
person who are cured always are able to gocrazy again.

Leisa Goodman(PR spokeswoman for Scientology) says, "Of course we want new
members, like we also want to help people. But we can´t help them if they have
been in psychiatric care. They are too destroyed.

        Maybe the woman had stopped taking pills
        to become a member?

Karma Jensen(Danish chief of information) answers, "There is no prof for that"

        Why were the woman allowed to work for Scientology
        when she had been in psychiatric care?

Karma Jensen answers, "But we can´t just let people go on the street"

The 47 year old woman helped for free where she could in Scientology´s European
Headquater in Jernbanegade and it was also here she met Debbie and Aimé Hiver,
the parents of the twins.
When the parents often worked untillate in the evening and didn´t had the money
for a babysitter they allowed the woman to move in with them a few months ago.

        When Scientologists fear psychiatric patients why did the
        parents let the woman move in? They had to know there
        were a risk?

"They had a good heart and...........", is all Leisa Goodman says before she is
cut off by Karma Jensen who says, "They didn´t know she had been in care"

        Isn´t it strange that Debbie Hiver didn´t know that the woman
        had been in care? They had spent much time together before
        she moved in?

Karma Jensen answers, "We don´t tell whether people have been in care or not.
BTW I didn´t know that woman at all. Maybe I have seen her a few times"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article 4:

Scientology pays compasation after faild counseling!!

Scientology are going to pay  245.000 Dkr($44200.00) in compasation to a
middleaged man who spent a bigger fortune on auditing

"This is the result of a compromise between the man and Scientology";  the
lawyer Sigurd Trolle tells to Ritzau(News agency)

The organisation took about 1350 Dkr ($240) pr. hour for a kind of therapy which
in Scientology are called auditing.
The man were promised that he within two years would reach the level of Clear, a
special condition of the mind where all sickness from this and past lives are
terminated. After those two years the man realised that he wasn´t Clear, but
only broke.

The man had made a written contract with Scientology that he would get a refund
on at least 80% if he didn´t get Clear. First Scientology wouldn´t pay, but the
man sued with the deman of a refund of about 280.000 Dkr ($50.500). After
negotiations between the lawyers Scientology have now agreed to pay.

From 1986 to 1992 the man and his wife have used about 380.000 ($68.500)on
auditing and other courses in Scientology to help the man get Clear and his wife
to get rid of a serious headacke.




From: danm@interlog.com (Dan McKinnon)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Babysitter killed the twins
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:16:53 GMT

More information, first from the TORONTO STAR WWW site:
  (Warning - a couple of the details may be upsetting to some)


  [ PREVIOUS STORY ]           October 1, 1996             [ NEXT STORY

                     [Image]

Canadian twin babies mutilated in Denmark, nanny turns herself in

By Rebecca Bragg - Toronto Star Staff Reporter

Police in Copenhagen say they still don't know why a nanny mutilated,
then killed one-year-old Canadian twins in the Danish capital Saturday
night.

``We still know nothing,'' a spokesperson for the Copenhagen city police
said yesterday. ``She is in custody, but we don't know why she did what
she did.''

While Debbie and Aimé Hiver were at work at a cleaning company Saturday,
police say, their 47-year-old nanny, Ludmila Vassilieva, appeared at a
local police station with a stroller bearing the bodies of their
daughter, Lauren, and son, Hervé.

Debbie Hiver, who lived in Toronto during the early 1980s, said in a
statement issued with her husband, a native of France: ``More than
anything we want to have our children back and we are not sure how we
will ever recover from our loss.''

ADMITS GUILT

Marie Louise Schroder, a reporter who has been following the bizarre
case for Ekstra Bladet, a Copenhagen newspaper, said Vassilieva has told
police she drowned and sexually mutilated the babies while bathing them,
then dressed their bodies, placed them in a stroller and wandered around
the Danish capital for about an hour before asking passersby for
directions to a police station.

Although Vassilieva has admitted to sexually mutilating the babies with
scissors after their deaths, Schroder said Danish coroners believe that
the mutilations happened while the children were still alive.

Vassilieva, like the Hivers, is a member of the Church of Scientology,
and in a public letter the parents laid the blame for their nanny's
behavior on psychiatric treatment, ``which not only does not help but
can influence a person to kill.''

Scientology has been outspoken in its opposition to psychiatry for many
years.

``We only just found out that our babysitter was earlier under
psychiatric treatment,'' the parents wrote. ``Now we can see why this
happened and can see that she herself was a victim.''

FEAR PSYCHIATRY

Vassilieva, a mother of three, whom the children called ``Luzi,''
appeared before a judge on Sunday.

The woman, who witnesses described as ``calm and cool'' throughout the
hearing, said she did not know why she had killed the children, Schroder
said.

Vassilieva, who hails from St. Petersburg, Russia, emigrated to Italy at
the age of 22 and later acquired Italian citizenship.

Debbie Hiver has two other children, age 13 and 14, who do not live with
the couple. The twins would have had Canadian citizenship through their
mother.

Vassilieva, who cannot be named by Danish media, had worked for the
Hivers for a couple of months, receiving food, housing and pocket money
in return for cleaning and babysitting.

                            -------------------

With files from Dale Anne Freed and Nicolaas van Rijn



                   More from  TORONTO SUN article:

  (Picture of Square brick house behind large front lawn in what appears
to be a semi-rural setting - child's tricycle in foreground)


 Mother identidfied as Deborrah  Hele Hiver of Canada, father as Paul
Maurice Hiver, of France, Both members of CO$.
   
 Canada's Dept. Foreign affairs confirmed the two victims were Canadian
citizens.

 The Canadian Embassy in Copenhagen has been in touch with officials of
CO$ "to relay messages of condolence to mother and her husband, and to
offer assistance."  

   "Last night Toronto Scientology spokesman Al Butnor could not confirm
the couple were Scientology staff members."

'   "I've just heard about it", he said, and could  offer no further
information until he'd heard the family's wishes.'

    Dan




From: Emerald <emerald@nym.alias.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Babysitter killed the twins
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:17:39 -0400 (EDT)

Bev <dbj1120@iag.net> wrote:

> This is way to horrible and I don't want to believe it's really true.
> Has this been confirmed by any other sources.

Here is another article on this tragedy:


    COPENHAGEN (CP-AP) - A woman drowned a pair of one-year-old
    Canadian twins while bathing them, then dressed the bodies, put
    them in a stroller and pushed them to a police station, police
    said Monday.

    A Russian-born nanny turned herself in to police and was taken
    into custody for a psychological examination and questioning. She
    was not identified.

    The one-year-old boy and girl were drowned on Saturday, police
    said. They said the children's bodies were mutilated.

    The twins' mother was identified as Deborrah Helen Hiver, of
    Canada, and the father as Paul Maurice Hiver of France.

    The couple had met the nanny at a Scientology church where they
    are all members, church officials said.

    Police said the nanny had worked for the couple for several months
    and had a history of mental problems. Officials said she holds an
    Italian passport. Valerie Noftle, a spokeswoman for the Department
    of Foreign Affairs in Ottawa, said the department "is aware of the
    tragic deaths of two Canadian children" in Copenhagen on Saturday.

    "The Canadian embassy in Copenhagen has been in touch with
    officials of the Church of Scientology in Copenhagen to relay
    messages of condolence to the Canadian mother and her husband, and
    to offer assistance if required," Noftle said Monday.

    She was unable to provide Hiver's hometown in Canada or any other
    information, due to privacy laws.


I wonder if the nanny, who had a "history of mental problems", had been
persuaded by the cult to stop taking anti-psychotic medication?

--
Emerald <emerald@nym.alias.net>

From: bill@ietc.ca (spbill)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Scientology Nanny guilty!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 00:57:58 GMT

According to an article in yesterday's Montreal Gazette newspaper,
Ludmilla Vassilieva, a 48-year old nanny was found guilty by a
Danish court of drowning the infant twins of a Toronto woman
and her French husband, and ordered confined to a mental
institution for an indefinite period.

For those of you who don't remember the whole saga, here is
a brief summary from an article by reporter Rebecca Bragg which
appeared in the Toronto Star some time ago...

>Marie Louise Schroder, a reporter who has been following the bizarre
>case for Ekstra Bladet, a Copenhagen newspaper, said Vassilieva has
>told police she drowned and sexually mutilated the babies while
>bathing them, then dressed their bodies, placed them in a stroller
>and wandered around the Danish capital for about an hour before
>asking passersby for directions to a police station.

>Although Vassilieva has admitted to sexually mutilating the babies
>with scissors after their deaths, Schroder said Danish coroners
>believe that the mutilations happened while the children were still
>alive.

>Vassilieva, like the Hivers, is a member of the Church of
>Scientology.

>``We only just found out that our babysitter was earlier under
>psychiatric treatment,'' the parents wrote. ``Now we can see why this
>happened and can see that she herself was a victim.''

>Vassilieva, a mother of three, whom the children called ``Luzi,''
>appeared before a judge on Sunday.  The woman, who witnesses 
>described as ``calm and cool'' throughout the hearing, said she did
>not know why she had killed the children, Schroder said.


spbill

Scientology: a suppressive group, blaming others for its own condition.


HCO Policy Letter of 29th June 1971 by L. Ron Hubbard

Policy is that we assign any case or upset in Scientology to past damage and interference with the person by medicine or psychiatry.


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