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Agenda 1/13/2009 8:59 AM
VIDEO STREAMED FROM Riverside County Board of Supervisors portal
ANNOTATIONS/NAVIGATION MENU by operatingthetan.com
CLICK NUMBERED ITEMS in this list to navigate video
1. Jump to 00:32:02 (1922 seconds)
Riverside County Board of Supervisors Chairman Jeff Stone calls speaker 1 to address Ordinance 884.
2. Jump to 00:32:10 (1930 seconds)
(from the official webcast site) SUPERVISOR STONE: ADOPTION OF ORDINANCE NO. 884, an Ordinance of the County of Riverside Regulating Targeted Residential Picketing. (3.28 of 1/6/09) (9:31:52 AM)
3. Jump to 00:32:16 (1936 seconds)
4. Jump to 00:35:02 (2102 seconds)
5. Jump to 00:35:41 (2141 seconds)
Stone calls speaker 2
6. Jump to 00:36:10 (2170 seconds)
7. Jump to 00:38:35 (2315 seconds)
End. Stone lectures about religious freedom.
8. Jump to 00:39:50 (2390 seconds)
Speaker 2 explains first amendment.
9. Jump to 00:40:09 (2409 seconds)
Stone implies speaker doesn't understand ordinance.
10. Jump to 00:40:30 (2430 seconds)
Speaker 2 suggests Stone might want to rewrite the constitution.
11. Jump to 00:40:37 (2437 seconds)
Stone objects to applause for speaker 2 and calls speaker 3.
12. Jump to 00:40:59 (2459 seconds)
13. Jump to 00:44:15 (2655 seconds)
14. Jump to 00:44:19 (2659 seconds)
Stone calls speaker 3.
15. Jump to 00:44:28 (2668 seconds)
16. Jump to 00:50:56 (3056 seconds)
Stone warns time for speaker 3.
17. Jump to 00:51:30 (3090 seconds)
Stone ends time for speaker 3.
18. Jump to 00:51:40 (3100 seconds)
Stone calls speaker 4.
19. Jump to 00:51:58 (3118 seconds)
20. Jump to 00:55:22 (3322 seconds)
Stone warns time for speaker 4.
21. Jump to 00:55:35 (3335 seconds)
End. Stone calls speaker 5.
22. Jump to 00:55:50 (3350 seconds)
23. Jump to 00:59:06 (3546 seconds)
Stone warns time for speaker 5.
24. Jump to 00:59:53 (3593 seconds)
Stone ends time for speaker 5.
25. Jump to 01:00:06 (3606 seconds)
Speaker 5 finishes.
26. Jump to 01:00:23 (3623 seconds)
Stone asks County Counsel to address ordinance.
27. Jump to 01:00:37 (3637 seconds)
Stone tells AO he can't speak because he gave up his time1.
28. Jump to 01:01:10 (3610 seconds)
Stone gets back on religious freedom bandwagon, asks County Counsel to show map of Gold Base.
29. Jump to 01:01:40 (3700 seconds)
County Counsel Pamela J. Walls.
30. Jump to 01:03:50 (3830 seconds)
Walls identifies residential areas on photo, says picketers cannot target a residence while proceeding "in front of that residence."
31. Jump to 01:04:31 (3871 seconds)
Supervisor Wilson asks where the entrance is.
32. Jump to 01:04:47 (3887 seconds)
33. Jump to 01:05:18 (3918 seconds)
Wilson asks if ordinance was a factor in incident with LA Times reporter.
34. Jump to 01:05:56 (3956 seconds)
Walls responds, mentioning firearms for some reason.
35. Jump to 01:06:37 (3997 seconds)
Supervisor Buster asks if ordinance even applies to Gold Base dispute.
36. Jump to 01:06:45 (4005 seconds)
Walls responds, saying it does not apply "to a general protest that doesn't target a residence."
37. Jump to 01:06:50 (4010 seconds)
Buster asks why is this ordinance needed.
38. Jump to 01:06:58 (4018 seconds)
Walls responds that they understood picketers were targeting residences.
39. Jump to 01:07:09 (4029 seconds)
Buster asks if ordinance applies to entire property if it includes a residence, or if ordinance only applies to individual residences on the property.
40. Jump to 01:07:49 (4069 seconds)
Walls responds that it apples to individual residences.
41. Jump to 01:07:53 (4073 seconds)
Buster objects that picketers have no way of knowing which buildings are residences.
42. Jump to 01:08:39 (4119 seconds)
Walls responds, saying it is defined that protesters "have to be proceeding in front of or around a residence and that it has to be targeted at that residence". She then talks about other jurisdictions and courts that recognize this limitation, and she thinks it's clear.
43. Jump to 01:09:19 (4159 seconds)
Buster asks what is the need for the ordinance if it doesn't apply to Gold Base.
44. Jump to 01:09:25 (4165 seconds)
Stone says "this ordinance is not in response to just the Church of Scientology."
45. Jump to 01:10:09 (4209 seconds)
Buster asks for an instance where the current laws were not sufficient to handle safety and other problems.
46. Jump to 01:11:14 (4274 seconds)
Buster asks where is the specific spot that he was assured Gold Base protesters could use, but can't get an answer, nor can he get a clear answer whether the ordinance does or does not apply at Gold Base.
47. Jump to 01:12:03 (4323 seconds)
Stone says he doesn't "want to wait for an incident of somebody getting maimed or killed... before we write an ordinance ot protect the public..." then punts to Walls.
48. Jump to 01:12:42 (4362 seconds)
Walls says much of Gilman Springs Road is not affected by the ordinance.
49. Jump to 01:13:01 (4381 seconds)
Buster asks if the ordinance allows protesters to cintinue to use the spot they currently use.
50. Jump to 01:13:09 (4389 seconds)
Walls responds that picketing in the area she understands they use is permissable under the ordinace.
51. Jump to 01:13:34 (4414 seconds)
Stone states there are additional speakers and calls speaker 6.
52. Jump to 01:13:47 (4427 seconds)
Sam Alhadeff says he clearly understood the directions the Supervisors had given at the last meeting, says he proposed a "collaborative meeting with the Sheriff, with County Counsel to do exactly what the Board asked us to do and then to report back". Alhadeff continues that none of the objections raised at this meeting were responses to the directions given at the last meeting.
53. Jump to 01:17:54 (4674 seconds)
Alhadeff ends (without a time warning from Stone)
54. Jump to 01:17:54 (4674 seconds)
Buster tells the Chair the way he reads the ordinance, it prohibits picketing within 50 feet of the property line of the entire Gold Base property.
55. Jump to 01:19:03 (4743 seconds)
Alhadeff starts talking about the long walk from the "residence, which is an apartment, to the dining hall" and picketers misbehave during that walk.
56. Jump to 01:19:41 (4781 seconds)
Buster asks Alhadeff if the ordinance allows demonstrators to continue what they were doing before the ordinance was introduced.
57. Jump to 01:20:10 (4810 seconds)
Alhadeff doesn't answer.
58. Jump to 01:20:30 (4830 seconds)
Buster "I'll take that as a 'yes'?"
59. Jump to 01:20:32 (4832 seconds)
Alhadeff agrees but insists the ordinance is needed to protect people who "go from their residence to a dining hall."
60. Jump to 01:21:09 (4869 seconds)
Buster wants to give clear direction to those enforcing the ordinance, complains about complexity of ordinance with respect to Gold Base.
61. Jump to 01:21:26 (4886 seconds)
Alhadeff "Mr. Buster, I couldn't agree more. And if you would allow us to do exactly what you ordered us to do, that's exactly what we're going to do. We're going to meet with the Sheriff's department. We're going to meet with the County Counsel, we're going to work through this. That's what we were supposed to do. We were back here today because, quite frankly, five or ten people wanted to come and have..
62. Jump to 01:21:45 (4905 seconds)
Buster "it becomes a County Ordinance so that we don't have any one particular interest directing our Sheriff, or directing our different departments as to how it's interpreted and that's one of my concerns here too. Miss Walls, it seems to me this doesn't meet the particular problem out of which it arose, and unless I can get a clear sense that it's really needed in this county because of other instances, I can't really support it at this point.... I don't see a use for this ordinance at this point."
63. Jump to 01:22:28 (4948 seconds)
Alhadeff Unsolicited response to comment directed to County Counsel, defending ordinance.
64. Jump to 01:22:45 (4965 seconds)
Buster responds, concluding "We don't want to pass ordinances that are used in an incorrect way to intimidate people from, in this case, exercising what are their rights."
65. Jump to 01:23:00 (4980 seconds)
Alhadeff argues "There's 500 people who live there who also have rights."
66. Jump to 01:23:10 (4990 seconds)
Buster comments that the ordinance does not even apply to those 500 people.
67. Jump to 01:23:18 (4998 seconds)
Alhadeff says ordinance does apply, and claims the ordinance has moved protesters from the residential area, and "we are trying to do exactly what you wanted us to do, which is to meet and confer and work through this and come back and give you a report."
68. Jump to 01:23:49 (5029 seconds)
Stone calls speaker 7.
69. Jump to 01:24:06 (5046 seconds)
Catharine Fraser: "we too have rights and I think we can work with the Sheriffs and the County Counsel to work this out so that we too have our first amendment rights and they have their first amentment rights and I am sure that we can work that out. Thank you very much". Turns and walks from podium.
70. Jump to 01:25:04 (5104 seconds)
Wilson calls Fraser back to the podium and asks if she was involved in the event when the Sheriff showed up.
71. Jump to 01:25:17 (5117 seconds)
Fraser confirms she was there.
72. Jump to 01:25:18 (5118 seconds)
Wilson asks if the ordinance prompted Fraser to call to the sheriff.
73. Jump to 01:25:24 (5124 seconds)
Fraser says it did not, and says the ordinance was not in effect because "we had to work out the details, and they did do the protest and the police did come and they were allowed to protest."
74. Jump to 01:25:48 (5148 seconds)
Wilson asks why the police were called.
75. Jump to 01:25:53 (5153 seconds)
Fraser said the police were called because of safety concerns, and that she had been personally threatend by the protesters at a different location.
76. Jump to 01:26:09 (5169 seconds)
Wilson asks Fraser if she understands that the ordinance does not apply to the Gold Base entrance or any other areas except in front of the residences.
77. Jump to 01:26:38 (5198 seconds)
Fraser says she is not "totally clear on that yet", and says she wants to "go over it with the sheriffs because where we have the dining hall is exactly at that point next to the entrance and that's part of the biggest issue..."
78. Jump to 01:26:58 (5218 seconds)
Wilson says the ordinance "doesn't mention dining rooms, it mentions reisidences."
79. Jump to 01:27:03 (5223 seconds)
Fraser says she will get together with the County Counsel and the Sheriff to work that out.
80. Jump to 01:27:31 (5251 seconds)
Walls says they have had discussions about whether or not the dining hall is a residence, and continues that the residential areas she identified earlier would have to be targetted, "not necessarily a dining hall."
81. Jump to 01:27:49 (5269 seconds)
Fraser says she is "totally aware of that and I know that's something we need to work out."
82. Jump to 01:27:55 (5275 seconds)
Stone calls AO.
83. Jump to 01:28:08 (5288 seconds)
84. Jump to 01:31:10 (5470 seconds)
Stone calls Graham Berry.
85. Jump to 01:31:20 (5480 seconds)
Berry raises several concerns, including concerns about the role of Fraser and her associates in working out the details related to the ordinance and its application.
86. Jump to 01:33:30 (5610 seconds)
Stone calls Assistant Sheriff Pete Labahn with several questions.
87. Jump to 01:34:53 (5693 seconds)
Labahn makes clear the Sheriff's Office will not be working with Alhadeff when giving input to County Counsel. He gives some history of pickets at Gold Base, and says the Sheriff's Office attempts to resolve issues at pickets without enforcing ordinances.
88. Jump to 01:36:44 (5804 seconds)
Supervisor Tavaglione asks if the Sheriff's department prefers to be involved in discussion before ordinances such as this are passed, and suggests a continuance.
89. Jump to 01:37:43 (5863 seconds)
Labahn thinks this is a good idea and describes some of the challenges at Gold Base. He says the Sheriffs' department was not, to his knowledge, involved in prior discussion about this ordinance.
90. Jump to 01:38:35 (5915 seconds)
Buster reminds people that the Sheriff's department has to be able to work with the ordinance and asks for the department's involvement.
91. Jump to 01:39:36 (5976 seconds)
Labahn comments that his department seems to be finding some balance in mediating disputes between the picketers and the Scientologists.
92. Jump to 01:40:08 (6008 seconds)
Wilson moves a continuance, which passes unanimously.