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Agenda 3/3/2009 8:58 AM
VIDEO STREAMED FROM Riverside County Board of Supervisors portal
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1. Jump to 00:35:15 (2115 seconds)
Jeff Stone: We will now go to 3.6. This is the adoption of Ordinance 884 an ordinance of the County of Riverside regulating targeted residential picketing. We have a number of speakers. Our first speaker will be Doug Owens from Pasadena. He has been given three minutes from Tom Provenzano from West Hills and Len Campbell from Los Angeles. Mr. Owens, nine minutes you have.
2. Jump to 00:35:39 (2139 seconds)
Doug Owens: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. My name is Doug Owens and it is a pleasure to address you today.
3. Jump to 00:35:45 (2145 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you.
4. Jump to 00:35:46 (2146 seconds)
Doug Owens: I've made arrangements with Clerk's Office to show you a short PowerPointc video presentation. May I play that presentation for you now?
5. Jump to 00:36:00 (2160 seconds)
Jeff Stone: We'll have somebody assist you in just one moment.
6. Jump to 00:36:03 (2163 seconds)
Doug Owens: Thank you.
7. Jump to 00:36:04 (2164 seconds)
Jeff Stone: You bet. You're not losing any time, so....
8. Jump to 00:36:17 (2177 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Did you give a disk or something?
9. Jump to 00:36:19 (2179 seconds)
Doug Owens: I'm sorry. I gave it to the County Clerk's office and they have it installed on your computer here. I... thought the County Clerk....
10. Jump to 00:36:25 (2185 seconds)
Jeff Stone: You're... here he comes to the rescue.
11. Jump to 00:36:43 (2203 seconds)
Jeff Stone: I guess before we get started, I want to just reemphasize that this is a residential targeted ordinance. That we appreciate if you would not utilize this forum for any issues you have with any religious institutions. If you'd just limit your comments to the ordinance we'd really appreciate that.
12. Jump to 00:37:39 (2259 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Mr. Owens, with your indulgence, I'm going to call the next speaker. Is that okay? For three minutes....
13. Jump to 00:37:44 (2264 seconds)
Doug Owens: Absolutely.
14. Jump to 00:37:44 (2264 seconds)
Jeff Stone: ...until we get our situation working here. I'll call on Mark Condon from Cherry Valley. You have three minutes, sir. Good morning.
15. Jump to 00:37:54 (2274 seconds)
Mark Condon (retired Riverside County sheriff's deputy): Good morning and thank you for allowing me to speak to you. First of all, I would like to thank Bob Buster for using conservativeness when the purchase of his vehicle; not buying a luxury vehicle and my hat goes off to you on that mere fact.
16. Jump to 00:38:11 (2291 seconds)
Mark Condon: What I'm here to speak about. I'm a retired Riverside County sheriff's deputy. And it concerns me when I read in the paper this 884. I've read it in its entirety. It seems really poorly written. I personally think that our Constitutional rights are very important. And I'm afraid that we are going to slowly whittle away at them. And some of the ordinances in the recent past have done that to where it's becoming more and more difficult to live in Riverside County and not be in violation of some code enforcement. There's already a huge bunch of state laws that we enforce now. And, as I understand, were enforced recently at this last incident that this seems to be a tailor fit law to. The fact that you could be across the street seems like well that's a great thing. I can be across the street and, but if they own the street across, then I can't picket across the street.
17. Jump to 00:39:04 (2344 seconds)
Mark Condon: Now, personally, I have no intention on picketing that particular person or establishment but I want to be able to picket sexual offenders that move into my neighborhood and if they own the street across from this street, I can't do it. If they don't have a sidewalk, this specifically discusses sidewalks, I can't do it. It even says that if I'm guilty of it and they cite me for it, I can be cited once a day. It doesn't describe what a day is. If I actually am cited for that, I can continue the rest of the day. So, it doesn't stop what you want to do. Which is to stop the protesting.
18. Jump to 00:39:41 (2381 seconds)
Mark Condon: I would like the County to not get involved personally with little battles and whatnot. I don't know that much about the particular church or group that is being picketed against and I don't know anything about the group that is picketing for them. I know that in the past, when I was a sheriff's deputy active, the Scientology people did not give us access in a homicide investigation and they weren't our friends. And I think since then, that things have been, you know, that we have been, you know, made great strides to be good neighbors. It concerns me that we are specifically tailoring a law just to protect them. And I would really like to see that we not get involved in that and just work with the penal code section. Thank you very much
19. Jump to 00:40:23 (2423 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you, Mr. Condon. Ms. Walls will have a comment.
20. Jump to 00:40:26 (2426 seconds)
Pamela Walls: Thank you, Mr. Condon. I just wanted to address a couple of things regarding the specific language of the ordinance. And sidewalk space is defined in the ordinance. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a concrete sidewalk. It's defined as including the area between the property line and the vehicular traffic line. So, you don't necessarily actually have to have a curb and gutter there. And also he did mention about whether each and every day that there is the targeted residential picketing taking place whether that would be a separate violation. And under Section 5 of the penalty section, it would be a separate violation. And the last comment I'd like to make, is this is an ordinance that only regulates targeted residential picketing. And that's picketing that precedes in front of or around the residence. If it's not targeting a residence, it's not going to be regulated by this. It's a narrowly drawn ordinance. And it may or may not apply to the conduct of, the, that is going on in front of the Golden Era Production Studios. Thank you.
21. Jump to 00:41:40 (2500 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Are we [?] on our presentation, so I can call Mr. Owens back up? Great. Mr. Owens, sorry about the delay.
22. Jump to 00:41:48 (2508 seconds)
Doug Owens: Thank you. If I could show you this short presentation.
23. Jump to 00:41:50 (2510 seconds)
["The Riverside County Sheriff at Scientology's International Base aka Golden Era Productions; 24 February 2009; Running Time 5:02" Presentation shown]
24. Jump to 00:47:38 (2858 seconds)
Doug Owens: Okay, I shot, I shot that video. That video is unedited. I would like to ask each of you, how you would've felt if the Sheriff had acted this way towards you during the David Dokich protest. I believe by passing Ordinance 884 today, you will be sending a message to Ms. Fraser, who is in the inter-fanatical core of Scientology. Do you support her calling law enforcement unnecessarily to facilitate her unlawful citizen's arrest of lawful, lawfully abiding protestors? Also, by passing this ordinance today you will be sending a green light to the Sheriff's Department to make unlawful and vague demands and to unlawfully cite peaceful law-abiding protestors as a pretext to deprive them of their greatest constitutional rights: to peaceful assemble, to have free press and exercise free speech: all hall, excuse me, all hallmarks of our great country. I urge you to send a strong message to the Sheriff's Department to ensure the rights of demonstrators instead of depriving them of their rights. Vote no on the second reading of this ordinance. As a government body, don't take the dangerous risk that your vote will unduly harm someone's freedom of speech, assembly and the ability of a free press to flourish in this great country. Thank you.
25. Jump to 00:48:50 (2930 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Mr. Owens, thank you very much. I appreciate you bringing your video. I just want to reiterate that this was not a breach of the ordinance. This was a breach of trespassing and a property owner has the right to warn you that you are trespassing and if you continue to trespass then you're breaking the law.
26. Jump to 00:49:09 (2949 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Mark Bunker from San Diego. No.
27. Jump to 00:49:20 (2960 seconds)
Mark Bunker: I was also arrested that day for the same trespassing charge. We went back a few days later on Saturday. The exact same thing, no problem. Walking through the driveway, the Sheriff's deputies said fine. Anyway. Bear with me for a moment, Mr. Stone. And you'd mentioned that you were Jewish. I'd just like you to imagine for a moment, that this building is run by a Rabbi. And everybody who works in this building is now also living in this building, so it's a residence. And around the building is a big iron fence topped with a barbed wire and motion detectors. And there are guards at the gate that won't let anyone in or out without the permission of the Rabbi. You're working ninety hours a week for fifty dollars. If you're lucky, once every two weeks you may get one day off.
28. Jump to 00:50:11 (3011 seconds)
Mark Bunker: Now, Mr. Stone, your office now has bunk beds cause all of you are living in your office. And it's crowded. And maybe Mr. Wilson one day says, "Boy this sucks." Well, Mr. Luna then has to write up a report and send it to the Rabbi saying, "Mr. Wilson says this sucks." Mr. Wilson is hauled up in front of the Rabbi's ethics officer, who hooks him up to a lie detector and says: "Why on earth would you say this sucks? I mean, you want to help people don't you? I mean, you came into this building to help people. Then you know, you are the only people who can help the people of this county." So, to get yourself back in the right mindset, the Rabbi puts you in the Rehabilitation Project Force. And you're isolated from anybody else and you can't talk unless someone else has talked, has first talked to you. You're fed rice and beans. And you work hard labor half of the day and the other half of the day you have to study the teachings of the Rabbi until you get back into the good graces. Now, that could last for months or even years. And during that time, Mr. Wilson's wife, his children, his grandchildren may not even have an idea of where he is or what his health is like. Now, these things are going on everyday inside the Scientology's building. The people, Mr. Wilson's wife couldn't reach to somebody outside this building because their phone calls are monitored and their mail is read.
29. Jump to 00:51:42 (3102 seconds)
Mark Bunker: I'm telling you, if this was happening in this building, I would be outside this building protesting for your rights Mr. Stone. There are people in this county who need your help. And it's not David Miscavige who is causing these abuses, it's the people who are actively in there who can't turn to you for help. Thank you.
30. Jump to 00:52:07 (3127 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you, Mr. Bunker. Our next speaker is Julie Waltz. Julie, if you could please mention your address and the city you are from for record. I would appreciate that. Okay, Julie Waltz wants to be on hold, is that right? Donald Myers from West Hollywood. Good morning, sir.
31. Jump to 00:52:33 (3153 seconds)
Donald Myers: Good morning. I'm sure I speak for everyone in the room when I hope that we are done speaking on this issue. So since this is the last time that we can speak on this issue, I would like to thank Mr. Stone for reading the Black PR about Anonymous early on in this because it made some very mean, nasty people on the internet wake-up and realize that what they say and the slanderous things they talk about have repercussions, regardless of how you feel on any issue. And almost anything you do on the internet involving a conversation is a, you'll get smeared and I'm very glad he pointed that out. Also, the internet stream looks great here but on the internet, everything is sepia toned and this camera doesn't really work very well. Catherine Fraser had a dramatic picture of an overturned car and when you see her give that presentation on the internet, you can barely even see what the pictures are. So, I hope you'll check out that camera.
32. Jump to 00:53:25 (3205 seconds)
Donald Myers: As was mentioned when you saw that video, there were arrests last Tuesday after this meeting. And Sergeant Kurlowicz acted in an extremely improper manner. Catherine Fraser just pointed at people at random and had them arrested. Now Ms. Walls, you worked hard on this to make sure to make sure this was legally well-written. But the trouble was it didn't stop us from protesting, so the Scientologists have got to find some other way to stop us. Now, you all promised us that we could protest there, if we did not target residences. This Sergeant, this Kurlowicz, had us moving all over the place in a desperate attempt to get us away from the front doors, to the point where he told us to move back to the Sea Org buildings we are not supposed to protest. His every effort was to either bait us into being arrested or to get us away from the front gate at all times. And then this weekend, the opposite happened. There were no cops and I had to stomp on the flowers in the public property in order to get the cops to show up because we want police there. I don't trust the Scientologists. They also wasted a huge amount of water, spraying water all over us. And ruined my signs.
33. Jump to 00:54:37 (3277 seconds)
Donald Myers: Now, Mr. Stone, have you heard of a Scientology process called a Purification Rundown?
34. Jump to 00:54:43 (3283 seconds)
Jeff Stone: No.
35. Jump to 00:54:44 (3284 seconds)
Donald Myers: It's a Scientology exercise where they take large quantities of vitamins, especially niacin. Now, Mr. Stone, you are a pharmacist, correct? And how long have you been a pharmacist in Hemet?
36. Jump to 00:54:56 (3296 seconds)
Jeff Stone: I am not a pharmacist in Hemet. But I have been a pharmacist for twenty-eight [?number mumbled] years.
37. Jump to 00:55:01 (3301 seconds)
Donald Myers: And is it true that you don't just sell vitamins but you mix vitamins? Is that true?
38. Jump to 00:55:07 (3307 seconds)
Jeff Stone: I make all kinds of things.
39. Jump to 00:55:09 (3309 seconds)
Donald Myers: But do you make vitamins?
40. Jump to 00:55:10 (3310 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Yes, we do.
41. Jump to 00:55:11 (3311 seconds)
Donald Myers: And do you make niacin?
42. Jump to 00:55:13 (3313 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Is that germane to this discussion?
43. Jump to 00:55:15 (3315 seconds)
44. Jump to 00:55:16 (3316 seconds)
Donald Myers: Yes, it does. Because it explains, it explains why you were so eager to help Scientology out.
45. Jump to 00:55:17 (3317 seconds)
Jeff Stone: I don't think, I don't think.... I don't make niacin. I don't make any products for the Scientologists. [Cannot hear further comments.]
46. Jump to 00:55:26 (3326 seconds)
Donald Myers: Okay. Your actions over many years are now gonna put you in a bad position. You can either be seen as soft on organized crime when you do what the Scientologists want. And when you don't do what the Scientologists want, they're going to eventually break your thumbs. Have you ever thought that this is an organized criminal organization? They killed Judge Swearinger's dog and they could kill your dog, too, eventually. Thank you.
47. Jump to 00:55:53 (3353 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you, Don. The next speaker will be Graham Berry. He has been given three minutes by Gary Sharf and three minutes by Patricia Curtis. Graham Berry from Los Angeles. Good morning, sir.
48. Jump to 00:56:08 (3368 seconds)
Graham Berry: Good morning ladies and gentlemen both on the board and the audience and across the world who are watching on the videocam as far away as Sweden and Russia.
49. Jump to 00:56:20 (3380 seconds)
Graham Berry: Last week, I pled with this board to rework and clarify this ordinance and its application at the Scientology compound before unlawful arrests were made and they have been. Ordinance 884 does not pass Constitutional muster. It is vague, ambiguous and unenforceable because there have been critical changes made to the San Diego ordinance that the county relies upon for its legitimacy here.
50. Jump to 00:56:49 (3409 seconds)
Graham Berry: Section three of the definitions section of the set Riverside ordinance differs significantly from the San Diego ordinance. It adds three definitions clearly designed to apply to the Scientology premises. Sidewalk space. Everyone knows there's none at Gold base. Then there's the definition of street which is defined arguably to include the very space that the Scientology attorney, the Board's Council and several board members have said was available for picketing. The very area near the guard house and opposite which is where last week's arrests were made. If Catherine Fraser speaks here again today, I ask you to question her on these three arrests. A targeted, a definition of targeted dwelling is also added to the Riverside County Ordinance.
51. Jump to 00:57:39 (3459 seconds)
Graham Berry: Now, section four is really where the material changes are made. Because the San Diego ordinance restricts targeted picketing to 300 feet from the targeted dwelling. The Riverside ordinance restricts targeted picketing to 30 feet from the property line on which the targeted dwelling is located.
52. Jump to 00:58:02 (3482 seconds)
Graham Berry: And then you have section five which adds a whole series of additional penalties. Clearly designed and directed at people like Keith Henson who picked Gold base for an entire summer, was arrested, convicted and imprisoned for six months for misdemeanor terrorism and interfering with the practice of a religion for mentioning the possibility of a Tom Cruise Missile arriving at Gold base.
53. Jump to 00:58:25 (3505 seconds)
Graham Berry: These are material differences and they cause the vagueness problem now being experienced. Last Tuesday morning, as you have heard, in contradiction of the representations made to this board, people were arrested by the Sheriff's Deputies already waiting at that location when the picketers arrived.
54. Jump to 00:58:43 (3523 seconds)
Roy Wilson: But they were not arrested on this ordinance. This ordinance hadn't taken effect yet.
55. Jump to 00:58:49 (3529 seconds)
Graham Berry: Graham Berry: Mr. Wilson
56. Jump to 00:58:50 (3530 seconds)
Roy Wilson: They were arrested for trespassing.
57. Jump to 00:58:52 (3532 seconds)
Graham Berry: If you are going to interrupt me, either stop the clock or perhaps give me my question.
58. Jump to 00:58:56 (3536 seconds)
Roy Wilson: Let's stick to the facts, shall we.
59. Jump to 00:59:00 (3540 seconds)
Graham Berry: That is not a fact. They are arrested for trespassing on an area covered by this ordinance. And with.
60. Jump to 00:59:05 (3545 seconds)
61. Jump to 00:59:06 (3546 seconds)
Graham Berry: And because. And I trust that the time is off now, sir. Because you're eating into my nine minutes.
62. Jump to 00:59:10 (3550 seconds)
Jeff Stone: I will give you enough time.
63. Jump to 00:59:13 (3553 seconds)
Graham Berry: Because you have encouraged Ms. Fraser and the Scientologists to act as though they are making arrests under this ordinance. You have given them the green light for that conduct. Now....
64. Jump to 00:59:25 (3565 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Sir, if anybody trespasses on any residential property in this county they have a right to make a citizen's arrest and they have a right to call the police or the sheriff.
65. Jump to 00:59:34 (3574 seconds)
Graham Berry: With the time still off, your honor, this is clearly public property. The area from one curb to the other curb, straight line, is public property. That is the line on which the arrests were made. Parallel in line with the curb.
66. Jump to 00:59:49 (3589 seconds)
Jeff Stone: If that, if your assertions are correct, you have due process, you can go to court and you can prove that and have any charges reversed. Correct?
67. Jump to 00:59:56 (3596 seconds)
Graham Berry: And that is because of vagueness caused by this resolution. Which has caused these people to cause these people additional and expense to, to validate their civil rights which have been encroached upon as a result of this ordinance. Either in its application or its formulation. Now, can I continue with the time starting again?
68. Jump to 01:00:18 (3618 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Sure. Please.
69. Jump to 01:00:19 (3619 seconds)
Graham Berry: These are material differences.... Sorry. Last Saturday, two deputies took the exact opposite position on camera and videotaped, which is now available for evidence through the Federal court when this matter gets there.
70. Jump to 01:00:41 (3641 seconds)
Graham Berry: Now, the next significant issue is that the public roadway extends 50 feet from the center lane. When it was a state highway, it proceeded a hundred feet from the center lane and the public property that people would normally walk on here has been encroached upon by the Scientology enterprise with non-native flowers, with listening devices, with other vegetation, with sprinklers and pieces of concrete saying, "this is trespassing." It is irrelevant that the public land has been encroached upon by Scientology. The people are still entitled to picket on that land and to walk on that verge even though the Scientologists have covered it with flowers, vegetation, listening devices and water. It is a traditional public forum in fact, as well as in law.
71. Jump to 01:01:32 (3692 seconds)
Graham Berry: And where are these 550 supposed residents of Gold base? Where are they? You have not heard from one. You've heard from Catherine Fraser, the Riverside County Council, yourself and the attorney for Scientology. Now, what about the non-Scientology residents of Riverside? The only one of those you've heard from is a former deputy sheriff. And I can add that there are deputy sheriffs all over California expressing their outrage on the internet, as what, as to what is happening here. Now, why are the local residents not here in support of this ordinance? Probably because it restricts the picketing rights already in place for sex offenders and the like. What is vague and therefore makes the ordinance, as drafted, unenforceable is the vagueness of the property line itself. Here, the Riverside ordinance does not even clearly provide ample alternative means of communication as the Klein and Frisbee cases require. The law should provide a clear and definite line as to what and what is not permissible and that is why this ordinance may be found unconstitutional.
72. Jump to 01:02:57 (3777 seconds)
Graham Berry: Now, some of these problems could be resolved, if only the County Council and the Sheriff would meet with representatives of the picketers. In a spirit of cooperation, it could probably be agreed that picketing at Gold base would be restricted to the entrance to the main gate, the entrance across from the main gate and the four other entrances and exits and above the two pedestrian tunnels that go under the road. When a similar dispute to this arose in the city of Clearwater, another Scientology Mecca, the city of Clearwater responded by defining clearly designated areas around Scientology offices and dwellings such as the Fort Harrison Hotel that anti-Scientology crime and abuse picketers could demonstrate in. The law requires you and the sheriff to act in a fair, impartial and equitable manner, such as meeting with all effected groups and not just the Scientology representatives.
73. Jump to 01:04:02 (3842 seconds)
Graham Berry: Now, there is one other matter here and that is, for the record, an objection to conferences and conflicts of interest which arise from the relationships between the Chairman of the Board and the Church of Scientology attorney who represents the Scientology enterprise. Those matters have been gone into, but for the record, I reassert them. And also for the record, the only injuries and violence at Gold Base or anywhere else in the world have been caused by the Scientologists. One instance of three of them dog-piling, hog-tying and injuring a person picketing on the property on October 26. Which resulted, again, in a citizen's arrest. And there is going to be civil litigation against Gold base and its staffers for that and last week's arrests. If Catherine Fraser speaks to you today, I ask you to question her as to those arrests and why the water sprinklers were turned on the protestors as soon as they started walking beside that road last Saturday. Thank you.
74. Jump to 01:05:08 (3908 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you, sir. [aside] Pam, could you also talk about conflict of interests?
75. Jump to 01:05:13 (3913 seconds)
Pamela Walls: Sure. Thank you. I would just like to point out that the definition for targeted picketing in this ordinance is verbatim the definition that is from the San Diego County ordinance and that was upheld in the Klein decision. And the Klein case is a 9th Circuit case that upheld targeted picketing ordinances. And in that case, it further cites the Thornberg v. Austin and the Burnell case as being acceptable targeted picketing ordinances. And in both those cases, the courts upheld a distance of 50 feet from the targeted residence's property line and upheld that as the Constitutional regulation of picketing activity. This ordinance is even narrower than the Klein, the ordinance San Diego County, ordinance upheld in Klein and the Thornberg and Burnell ordinances. It only regulates up to 30 feet from the property line and it accepts the sidewalk area across the street from the targeted residence. It, I don't believe this is an issue that the First Amendment challenge would be successful in that matter. Thank you.
76. Jump to 01:06:46 (4006 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you, ma'am. Julie Waltz, are you ready now? Julie?
77. Jump to 01:07:14 (4034 seconds)
Julie Waltz: Good morning....
78. Jump to 01:07:15 (4035 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Good morning.
79. Jump to 01:07:16 (4036 seconds)
Julie Waltz: Honorable Supervisors. I'm here today again to speak about Ordinance 884 Residential Targeted Picketing. And just for the record, I'm not affiliated with either group. Okay. As Riverside County Supervisors, when you were sworn into office you all took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Yet, now that you are in office, it appears that you, it appears that the United States Constitution plays second fiddle to special interest and special interest groups. It appears that many of you, as Supervisors, have been subject to protests in the course of your careers. The ram-rodding of the ordinance gives the appearance that you want to stifle opposition to your proposals and actions in county government issues.
80. Jump to 01:08:25 (4105 seconds)
Julie Waltz: This ordinance is only an attempt by you to silence the people who disagree with you. You are elected to represent all the people of Riverside County not just special interest groups. To silence the voice of the people should not be within your realm of power. From your own statements, you chose only one party from this dispute to meet with. County Council, County, you, excuse me, from your own statements, you chose only one party from this dispute to meet with County Council to write this ordinance that you were directly involved in. This appears to be a conflict of interest. You should have both sides meet with you, regarding this dispute, to write this ordinance. If convicted, high-risk sex-offender David Allen Dokich had complained to the Board of Supervisors, would you have invited him to write his own ordinance? Now remember, the preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America. "We the people." Not you the elected officials. Remember, you are elected not anointed.
81. Jump to 01:10:06 (4206 seconds)
Julie Waltz: Today, I know you will vote this ordinance in because you don't want to..., because you want and you refuse to hear the voice of opposition. And I also would like to, for the record....
82. Jump to 01:10:24 (4224 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Julie, your time is just about up.
83. Jump to 01:10:26 (4226 seconds)
Julie Waltz: I'm sorry but please let me finish. This is important. Your Chief of Staff, Mr. Lorenz, said the ordinance was requested by the Church of Scientology International, the target of a repeated protest by people who disagree with the religion at its 700 acre campus along Gilman Springs Rd, north of Hemet. The campus is the site of Golden Era Productions which produces the church literatures and videos. They were victims of rather a nasty, aggressive picket.
84. Jump to 01:11:06 (4266 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Julie, your time's up. Thank you very much.
85. Jump to 01:11:08 (4268 seconds)
Julie Waltz: Thank you.
86. Jump to 01:11:14 (4274 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Just a couple of quick comments. Number one, I don't think this ordinance has been ram-rodded through. This has been vetted many times for the public to have the opportunity to discuss it. This was not authored by anybody other than our County Council with the consultation of our Sheriff and looking at the San Diego ordinance. So, there's a lot of mistruths that have been stated here today that we need to clarify. And you're absolutely right, it needs to protect all people. And we're protecting people that live in residences that are targeted through residential protesting. 30 feet, we showed what 30 feet was. It is basically from one side of the chairs to the other. It still gives you ample opportunity to make the protest that you need.
87. Jump to 01:12:02 (4322 seconds)
Susan Elliot, if you'll come forward and please state your name, your address and city you are from for the record. Good morning.
88. Jump to 01:12:21 (4341 seconds)
Susan Elliot: [Document shown on projector: Column A:
November 16, 2008. Section 4. PROHIBITION. No person shall engage in picketing activity that is targeted at and is within three hundred (300) feet of a residential dwelling in the unincorporated are of the County of Riverside.
January 29, 2009. Section 4. PROHIBITION. No person hall engage in picketing activity within thirty (30) feet of the property (measured from the property line) upon which the targeted residential dwelling is located except on the sidewalk space on the opposite side of the street from the targeted residential dwelling.]
89. Jump to 01:12:35 (4355 seconds)
Susan Elliot: I am Susan Elliot from Laguna Beach. After last week's meeting, I was extremely confused. But thanks to the help of a lot of people, who poured over the videos of the meetings and the various versions of the ordinance, things have become clearer.
90. Jump to 01:12:52 (4372 seconds)
Susan Elliot: Last week, Mark Bunker asked Ms. Walls if she wrote the ordinance. And Ms. Walls said, "I went ahead and wrote that ordinance and I based it, I think, on the San Diego ordinance." Then Mr. Bunker asked if she wrote the first version, which she said she did. And then he asked who wrote the second version. And we don't know the answer to that question because Mr. Stone interrupted. The confusing part is why did Ms. Walls interrupt every speaker who spoke against the ordinance, insisting the ordinance in its current form allows people to protest in an area away from the residential dwellings when that is clearly not what the ordinance in its present form says. Her interpretation pertains to the original ordinance, which we know she wrote, but not to the current ordinance, whose author is unknown.
91. Jump to 01:13:41 (4421 seconds)
Susan Elliot: Did Ms. Walls change the words "residential dwelling" that you can see in November 16th to the words "property" as "measured from the property line"? There's no mention of residence there. Obviously, what she falsely stated is not what is here in black and white. Why? Does she know what it says? Because she... Or does she not know what it says because she didn't write it? Or does she know what it says and deliberately misrepresented it? In either case, it's alarming. The worse part is, I assume the Supervisor is about to pass an ordinance not based on what it really says but on Ms. Walls' false interpretation.
92. Jump to 01:14:23 (4463 seconds)
Susan Elliot: And what if the ordinance is passed? We were told last week that this ordinance has nothing to do with the Church of Scientology but rather it is for a mythical Mormon Bishop who voted yes on Prop. 8. No one knows who this mythical bishop is or where he lives. Maybe, not even in Riverside. But in any case, the second version of the ordinance is actually worse for this mythical bishop. Instead of having protestors 300 feet from his house, now they are 30 feet from his property line. But, guess what, if a certain church had a huge, mile long property occupying both sides of a road with residences any where on the property, the second version moves the protestors a mile away. Whereas, the first version would have had them 300 feet from the residential dwellings. The other problem is the original version mirrors the San Diego version which was successfully defended in court. And this one is different and it is also missing text from the Nebraska version.
93. Jump to 01:15:24 (4524 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Ms. Elliot, you'll need to summarize. Your time is just about up.
94. Jump to 01:15:25 (4525 seconds)
Susan Elliot: Okay. I like to believe the best in people and I've seen some actions, especially from Mr. Buster and Mr. Wilson that shows they are men of character and integrity. And I believe that there is an inkling in all of your hearts and minds that something isn't right here. And I urge you to go with that feeling. Thank you.
95. Jump to 01:15:45 (4545 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you Ms. Elliot.
96. Jump to 01:15:48 (4548 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Our next speaker is Lirra Bishop and she has been given three minutes from Thelma Grant and three minutes from Francois Choquette. You have a total of nine minutes.
97. Jump to 01:16:00 (4560 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: Good morning.
98. Jump to 01:16:03 (4563 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Good morning.
99. Jump to 01:16:05 (4565 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: Actually, we do know what was said on February 24th `cause I listened to it over and over. Supervisor, oh, my name is Lirra Bishop and I am from Perris. Supervisor Stone and County Counsel Pamela Walls continue to insist that attorney Alhadeff and his client, the Church of Scientology, were not involved in the drafting of Ordinance 884 or instrumental in drafting the ordinance. On February 24th 2009, the following exchange took place between Supervisor Stone, County Counsel and Mark Bunker at 1:30:12, at one hour, thirty minutes, twelve seconds: Stone: "Pam, would you please explain who drafted the ordinance? It was not Mr. Alhadeff." County Counsel: "I went ahead and drafted that ordinance and I based it on, uh, I believe it was the County of San Diego ordinance." Bunker: "The, the first ordinance that Stone brought to us or this revised version, version?" Walls: "The original ordinance that was brought I drafted based on a case, I believe it was the County of San Diego or the City of San Diego." Stone: "I gave her the copy of the City of San Diego. Bunker: "Was Scientology involved in it, the drafting of it?" Stone: "No, it was a copy of San Diego's ordinance; that was 500 feet, where we're talking about 30 feet today." Bunker: "So, Scientology had nothing to do with bringing this ordinance?" Stone: "They did not construct, did not have anything to do with that ordinance."
100. Jump to 01:17:37 (4657 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: But on November 25th 2008, the day that Supervisor Stone introduced the Ordinance 884, he stated at 46 minutes, 43 seconds, sorry: "The ordinance came about as a result of a group of individuals that have been very outspoken in admonishing the rights of others to practice a religion and they have been extremely contentious and it was as a result of their request that we examine what we can do because some of these very hateful individuals that just have a problem with this particular religion were engaging in some very contentious and potentially violent administrations, uh, demonstrations in front of their property that was totally inappropriate. We are also," and he, you went on to say, "we are also seeing that as a result of Prop. 8 passing that there has been some demonstrations against church groups and protests that have, uh, maybe stepped over the line." Well, demonstrating a group is completely different than demonstrating a residence. On that same day at 50 minutes, 38, Supervisor Stone stated: "This was brought forward, uh, a group, by uh, a group that was very concerned about hate crimes." That's not a residential concern, if it's brought by a group.
101. Jump to 01:18:56 (4736 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: And on January 13th 2009 at one hour fourteen minutes and fifty-six seconds, attorney Alhadeff stated: "What I had proposed to County Counsel and what we're working on is a collaborative meeting with the Sheriff with County Counsel to do exactly what the board asked us to do. And then to report back." At one-fifteen, forty-eight, he said: "All of the things that were discussed today really are not germane to the ordinance. They only, the only thing that really is germane or relevant to the ordinance today is for us to do exactly what the board asked us to do and to report back to the board. And that's what we propose to do." He continues at one, seventeen, fifteen: "Basically what happened is the Sheriff said, `If this was the City of Riverside, we could protect you.'" This is, presumably, the catalyst for attorney Alhadeff and the Church of Scientology approaching Supervisor Stone for his assistance in introducing Ordinance 884. At one, seventeen, forty-eight, attorney Alhadeff says: "I don't know what else to add except I think we ought to go about doing what we were supposed to do and follow the orders of the board."
102. Jump to 01:20:15 (4815 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: In conclusion, the following exchange between Supervisor Buster and attorney Alhadeff leaves no doubt that the Ordinance 884 was introduced to protect the Church of Scientology and that its legal counsel worked side-by-side with County Counsel and the Sheriff in drafting Ordinance 884. At one, twenty, thirty-five on January 13th 2009, Supervisor Buster: "Why is it needed?" Alhadeff: "It is needed." Buster: "Why, why, why are we, why are we going to such great lengths? Why is it needed?" Alhadeff: "It is needed because we are trying to protect these people, who live there and work there and go from their residences to a dining hall. And who do not particularly care to have people yelling or screaming at them as they go in their apartments or in their homes. And we've, and this ordinance has had a prophylactic measure on that question." Alhadeff never mentioned concern for protecting a Mormon bishop. Supervisor Buster, this is what you said, "I want to make life simpler for, for everyone involved particularly those who have to enforce these laws. The Sheriff, they need to have clearer, clearer rules, too, under which otherwise, otherwise all kinds of problems can ensue. And this is, this seems to me to be very, very much more complicated than it needs to be." Attorney Alhadeff: "Mr. Buster, I, I couldn't agree more and if you would allow us to exactly what you ordered us to do, that's exactly what we're going to do. We're going to meet with the Sheriff. We're going to meet with County Counsel. We're going to work this through. That's what we're supposed to do." Now, Supervisor Buster did go on to say that that probably wouldn't be a good idea but this was already in January. This was introduced in November and attorney Alhadeff had already been working with you guys. You know this whole ordinance is tainted. The motivation behind it, Mr. Stone, is tainted.
103. Jump to 01:22:26 (4946 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: Supervisor Jeff Stone and County Counsel Pamela Walls deliberate lies to the board and to the public warrant an investigation by the California Attorney General's office. If you guys are, excuse me, if you other Supervisors are willing to vote yes based on these words by Mr. Stone, County Counsel and Alhadeff, then you, too, warrant investigation by the Attorney General's office.
104. Jump to 01:22:53 (4973 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: And, let's see, I still have time. I've got. I've never used this. [Sets up image on projector. Pointing at image.] That's me. [unintelligible] My son. [unintelligible] [Changes image on projector.] This is the protest. This is [unintelligible] Stone. She was not thirty feet away from the property line on that day. I wasn't thirty feet from the property line. This, the blonde lady here, was the Vice-Principal from Columbia Elementary School with her son. There's Julie Walls. Thank you. [Changes image on projector.] We have protestors in front of the gate. Sheriff cars. Nobody's being arrested. So, why were the people at Gold base arrested?
105. Jump to 01:23:47 (5027 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Because they trespassed.
106. Jump to 01:23:49 (5029 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: Well, aren't we trespassing here? You can't trespass on a public way. [Crosstalk]
107. Jump to 01:23:51 (5031 seconds)
Jeff Stone: [unintelligible]
108. Jump to 01:23:53 (5033 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: Now, no matter how many times you try and spin it, it's not going to change that it's public. [Changes image on projector.] We've got parole cars, Sheriff cars. Here we are with the bullhorns. We've got somebody standing here. Nobody's being arrested. [Changes image on projector.] Here you are with a KFI microphone. You're, you're not, you're probably thirty feet from the property line only because you're right off of the highway. But Mr. Ashley, you were there that day. Mr. Buster, you were there that day as well as Mr. Stone. And you know that we were always walking, in front. We weren't blocking it. [Changes image on projector.] There's a back view of you.
109. Jump to 01:24:37 (5077 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: Now, just one more thing, I don't know if you guys are aware that I put a parole officer by the name of Joel Nolette under citizen's arrest at the David Allen Dokich protest for assault with a deadly weapon. That weapon being his car. Now he in turn, turned around placed me under citizen's arrest for a penal code 148: interfering, obstructing a peace officer. Do you know that we never got processed? We've got assault with a deadly weapon and a 148. Then you've got trespassing at Gold base and they get processed. What's up with that?
110. Jump to 01:25:24 (5124 seconds)
Jeff Stone: You have ten seconds.
111. Jump to 01:25:27 (5127 seconds)
Lirra Bishop: Why don't you go online to Google and Google "Jeff Stone's changing story"?
112. Jump to 01:25:33 (5133 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you Miss Bishop. Next speaker will be Sam Alhadeff. Sir, I'm sorry, you've already spoken.
113. Jump to 01:25:40 (5140 seconds)
Graham Berry: [unintelligible] I understand. I have one request that you recuse yourself from voting.
114. Jump to 01:25:44 (5144 seconds)
Jeff Stone: There is no reason to recuse myself. I'll have the County Counsel define why anyone should recuse themselves from this discussion and it does not pertain to myself.
115. Jump to 01:25:56 (5156 seconds)
Pamela Walls: Thank you chairman and members of the board. There are certain instances where you would be required to disclose and disqualify yourself if you had a financial interest under the Fair Political Practices Commission and the Political Reform Act. For example, under government code section 84308, if you had a financial interest, it could require the disclosure and disqualification. In this particular government code section, it would be a proceeding having to do with a license, permit or other entitlement. Also, this is a legislative action. It's not an action on a permit proceeding or license or other entitlement. Also, I know that it was raised about campaign contributions. And even this code section exempts out elected officials from having a financial interest in connection with their campaign contributions. So whether there's a legally imposed obligation to disqualify in this proceeding, I would contend there isn't a absolute legal requirement to do that. Thank you.
116. Jump to 01:27:15 (5235 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Mr. Alhadeff.
117. Jump to 01:27:25 (5245 seconds)
Sam Alhadeff: Sam Alhadeff, Temecula, California. Thank you. I really don't know where to start. Last, last week, I was sort of the one card. This week I stand in good company with County Counsel, the Board of Supervisors, the Sheriff and I don't know who else. But, let me try to quickly get to the chase here. Number one, Miss Walls drafted this ordinance. Number two, Miss Walls and I never had a conversation about the draft that is before you today until after it was submitted in a Form 11 and it was made public. Number three, we did provide copies of various ordinances to County Counsel when this was initially looked at because we wanted to give the opportunity, when I say we, just me, give the opportunity to County Counsel to just look at what had been done in other cities. This is very common by the way, when I was City Attorney in the City of Indio, I would often call on my friends and colleagues from other cities or municipalities to give me examples of what could be available for a particular ordinance. So, I did not find that uncommon or in any way out of bounds.
118. Jump to 01:28:37 (5317 seconds)
Sam Alhadeff: As Supervisor Wilson so aptly pointed out, this ordinance is not yet in effect. So, what happened out there, I wasn't there, but from what everything I've been able to understand is that there were violations of the penal code and there were violations of county codes with regard to where people walked or where they didn't walk. It is clear that from the penal code that you cannot obstruct entrances. I noticed that on the video there that the mail truck was trying to get through when everybody was standing in the middle of this driveway.
119. Jump to 01:29:12 (5352 seconds)
Sam Alhadeff: Going on, I found it interesting that this ordinance was being contested when it is not yet effective. So, having said that, turning quickly to what occurred with regard to constitutionality, the City of Riverside has a very similar ordinance, the distance is different. They went through these issues in 1996 and 1997 when they passed not only this ordinance but an ordinance prohibiting people from blocking entrances and exits of health clinics and the like.
120. Jump to 01:29:47 (5387 seconds)
Sam Alhadeff: Finally, with regard to campaign contributions, I have in the past over the number of years given campaign contributions to various elected officials. I will continue to do that; that's my constitutional right. I have never seen anybody influenced by a contribution, that I'm aware of, and I've gotten a lot of no's as well as yes's, so I understand that. Having said that, I think what we've done here today is a real hallmark in American democracy. You've given every opportunity over a, about a, five month period to a small group of individuals to come in and lay out their concerns. You've been patient; you've been considerate. I'm not sure they have been as patient and considerate with you but I appreciate what you've done. And in fact, I appreciate the fact that we all have this opportunity. I think this has been a well-vetted, well-vetted ordinance. I applaud the County Counsel for their integrity and standing up for what's gone on. And I appreciate the time I've had to speak to you. And thank you.
121. Jump to 01:30:54 (5454 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you, Mr. Alhadeff.
122. Jump to 01:30:55 (5455 seconds)
Sam Alhadeff: One other point, there was one point and I apologize.
123. Jump to 01:30:58 (5458 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Make it fast please, sir. Your time is up.
124. Jump to 01:30:59 (5459 seconds)
Sam Alhadeff: I will. There was delivered to the, to the board letters from individuals who do reside at the Golden Era campus with regard to their feelings about what's going on. And I might add, parenthetically, that I did enjoy the one comment about the individual's that he was happy when the police came because he felt more protected.
125. Jump to 01:31:22 (5482 seconds)
Sam Alhadeff:I guess what happens though, when you damage about $3000 worth of plants, you get arrested. Thanks.
126. Jump to 01:31:29 (5489 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Mr. Alhadeff. I don't see anymore requests to speak. Is there anyone else wishing, that hasn't spoken, to address the board on this issue before I close the hearing? In that case, I'll close the hearing. Supervisor Buster.
127. Jump to 01:31:44 (5504 seconds)
Bob Buster: Yes, can someone enlighten me about the particular physical circumstances at that entrance? If someone is walking down Gilman Springs Road on that side of Gilman Springs Road, can they continue across that entrance both, you know, approaching it and crossing the driveway, obviously on the pavement, but then can they get up? Is there some kind of a path, a dirt path at least, where they don't have, where they can walk by and they don't have to get out in the street? That they don't have to get out on the pavement, like an ordinary sidewalk or do they have to go out in the street even on the verges of that entrance way there? In order not to trample on the flowers or not to have the sprinklers get on their clothing? What, what, what happens there? What, just from a pedestrian, not anybody that's going to protest, just somebody walking down Gilman Springs Road, what happens when they get to that entrance? Do they have to go out into the street and possibly watch out for cars that may be, may be turning in there and creating a hazardous situation or are they going to have to trample on the flowers or do they have an actual path or walkway that they can stay off the street until they have to cross that driveway? Can someone answer that for me?
128. Jump to 01:33:09 (5589 seconds)
Graham Berry: [unintelligible]
129. Jump to 01:33:11 (5591 seconds)
Bob Buster: Yeah. Sure.
130. Jump to 01:33:13 (5593 seconds)
Graham Berry: When you walk down that roadway, there is the curb and the side...
131. Jump to 01:33:19 (5599 seconds)
Board members: Move up to the mic.
132. Jump to 01:33:20 (5600 seconds)
Bob Buster: Why don't you come up to the mic?
133. Jump to 01:33:22 (5602 seconds)
Jeff Stone: There's a microphone up there.
134. Jump to 01:33:26 (5606 seconds)
Graham Berry: The curb ends and the Scientology vegetation and their sprinklers and their motion detectors and sensors start. There is no pathway that you can walk down beside the roadway. If there, you've either got to walk....
135. Jump to 01:33:41 (5621 seconds)
Bob Buster: So, you have to get out on to the roadway, then at that point.
136. Jump to 01:33:43 (5623 seconds)
Graham Berry: You either walk on the actual curb itself or in the gutter.
137. Jump to 01:33:47 (5627 seconds)
Bob Buster: Or in the gutter.
138. Jump to 01:33:48 (5628 seconds)
Graham Berry: And if, that is public land, beside the roadway, but they encroached upon it as I said. And if they turn on the sprinklers....
139. Jump to 01:33:55 (5635 seconds)
Bob Buster: I didn't want an explanation. I think, I think I understand. So, a pedestrian that happened to be coming along at the time this protest were, when the sprinklers went on, were on, would either have to get wet or, and possibly trample on some flowers or they would have to actually get off, get off the side of the road and come out into the roadway before they cross this driveway, is that correct?
140. Jump to 01:34:19 (5659 seconds)
Graham Berry: Exactly.
141. Jump to 01:34:20 (5660 seconds)
Bob Buster: Okay.
142. Jump to 01:34:20 (5660 seconds)
Graham Berry: Exactly.
143. Jump to 01:34:21 (5661 seconds)
Bob Buster: Alright.
144. Jump to 01:34:22 (5662 seconds)
Graham Berry: [unintellible] [Puts up image on projector.]
145. Jump to 01:34:28 (5668 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Okay, I think that we've answered your question. Thank you.
146. Jump to 01:34:36 (5676 seconds)
Bob Buster: Alright, well. Let me just suggest that this particular case out here. That part, that's part of the problem here. That there's no place for the pro..., there's no sidewalk, even an undeveloped dirt path. That, and it forces anyone, to go out into the, into the roadway before they even, even cross which can be, could be a dangerous circumstance for anyone walking. I mean, normally you get to a driveway and you are going to look around to see if there's any traffic coming. But if you have to get out in the road, I mean, I, I know there are a lot of roads like this in the county. I have Washington Street near my house, for example, and in, in certain areas there is a lot of vegetation and fences and what not and they encroach into the right of way, probably, and force any pedestrians, particularly those walking side-by-side to really get out too close to cars and there's overhanging branches and the like. So, you have a similar circumstance here, where the protestors, when they're there, they're put between a rock and a hard place. They're either, they're either out there, they don't want to get wet, they're in a dangerous situation, or they're blocking traffic going in and out of the driveway. So, they're kind of in a no-win situation. I understand why Scientology doesn't want to have protestors embellishing it's front entrance way for everybody to look at. I mean, I understand that. At the same time though I think you have to provide for safety there. And I think that's partially the responsibility of Scientology and the county, if they're encroaching on that area so that a pedestrian and protestors can get off the street. So, I think that is what is contributing here to the confusion and the lack of consistency. And the difficulty for law enforcement agencies, to make what are often difficult calls out there and they're primarily, and I thought that officer was trying to create a safer, safer situation for, for everybody involved.
147. Jump to 01:36:32 (5792 seconds)
Bob Buster: But here we have this ordinance and it has gone through a lot of changes which is also caused a lot of confusion, as well. And really, a good ordinance should come out of clear, clear circumstances and consistent circumstances and how, and in this case have a compelling interest behind its passage. And that's where I think we fall short here. Because the ordinance itself, and I appreciate the comparison that was put up here, helpful but that's not all what this ordinance says. The ordinance defines targeted picketing as picketing that is targeted at a particular residential dwelling and proceeds on a definite course or route in front of our around that particular residential dwelling. If both these things have to occur, one could argue that this ordinance has no bearing at all on protestors that are in front of the entrance way. They're not, as I understand it, they're not what we would normally think of as in front of a particular residential dwelling. There's, there's different levels at which you can misunderstand this ordinance or when you're trying to apply it, you can foul up too. When you say particular, are they singling out one residential dwelling out of, I don't know how many there are out there, four or five dormitories. Cause that's what this says, you have to single out one, a particular one, not just a whole host or group of them, too, and you have to be in front of them. What does in front mean? There's no definition of that. But usually you look at a building and the way it's facing and the entrance way where you walk in and you go in front. And I don't know how far off to the sides is in front of, maybe we better get that defined, too.
148. Jump to 01:38:26 (5906 seconds)
Bob Buster: So, you look at this ordinance, it doesn't seem to apply to the only case that's been brought before us that says we need some ordinance to correct a real, real, real serious problem here. If it does apply, then I would think it's, it's, it's too difficult to enforce and it's too difficult for people and protestors or the people who own the property or the people living in the dwellings in the property out in Scientology to even understand what it means. There's, there's several levels at which you can argue about what this actually allows. Just this own ordinance out on that particular property out there. Now, again, usually I like to see some particular problem, serious problems, quell up in different parts of the county and the, the sheriffs and all our staff say, well, our current ordinance don't, can't really cover that. We really need something more here. We don't have that in this case. And I don't care what San Diego does and I don't care what Orange County does. I don't care what the other counties do cause often they make mistakes. And we make mistakes and we're going to make mistakes if we blindly just follow, try to copycat some other ordinance without a clear and compelling case here. So, I can't support this ordinance. I hope you can clarify it if it does go into effect because it seems to me, it's going to be really a problem for everybody to try to interpret and eventually you're going to spend a lot of money in court. People are going to try to get down to what this means, actually means and there's going to be a lot of needless strife. It's going to create more, possibly more strife than, than it solves.
149. Jump to 01:40:12 (6012 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Thank you Supervisor Buster. And I might mention that this has been vetted now, for many, many months and I want to applaud the opponents to ordinance because it was through your testimony when we first tried to model it off San Diego that the 500 feet was just too restrictive. And I agreed wholeheartedly, the board at the direction of Supervisor Wilson said we have to take another look at this. And we did. And 30 feet was determined to be a reasonable distance to effectively target residential development. This ordinance does not have any bearing on you going to the entrance of Golden Era and doing your protests. No, no bearing. I think even if you were to not block the entrance to Golden Era, I'm not so sure that there would have been any contentious issues with the Sheriff. Had the direction just been followed, don't block the ingress and egress to this facility. So it was a trespassing issue. But that doesn't stop you from continuing any protests in front of that facility. We vetted it, I certainly respect Supervisor Buster's input, but we have had County Counsel collaborate with the Sheriff and there was this inference that, again, that Mr. Alhadeff was the tail wagging the dog and getting this thing done and, you'll remember that when we have Sheriff, Assistant Sheriff Pete Lebahn came up when Mr. Alhadeff said I'm happy to meet with County Counsel to work the details out. Mr. Lebahn very appropriately said, no, the Sheriff Department in the absence of the private attorney will meet with County Counsel and so that we understand what is being enforced in this ordinance. And they've had that collaboration. And as a result, the Sheriff of this county supports what we are trying to do. Ms. Walls, it's been tested. I believe that there's clarity in the ordinance. And I just want you to reaffirm that in your legal views that it is clear and transparent and it does provide the parameters for which the sheriff can very clearly enforce this new ordinance that we're entertaining here today.
150. Jump to 01:42:32 (6152 seconds)
Pamela Walls: Thank you. This ordinance, a similar ordinance has been upheld in Klein has been upheld in Thornburg. It should satisfy constitutional challenges and muster. We have worked with the Sheriff's Department. They've asked that this stay in place as a possible tool they can use if not with respect to this particular matter, but in other situations that may arise down the road.
151. Jump to 01:43:03 (6183 seconds)
Pamela Walls: It, the extent of its applicability to the protests that are going on in front of Scientology, now, we have affirmed that it is not necessarily applicable to that situation. Thank you. It isn't.
152. Jump to 01:43:18 (6198 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Supervisor Wilson.
153. Jump to 01:43:20 (6200 seconds)
Roy Wilson: Mr. Chairman, as you just got through saying, this has gone through so much revision and so many reiterations. I initially shared many of the concerns Supervisor Buster had. I understand the opposition. I understand those that feel fearful that perhaps they won't be able to do another Dovich protest if we adopt this and so forth. And so, back about three or four reiterations ago, I asked for a six month bring back and report and I don't know if that's been lost. But if we have a motion to approve this today, I would like a report from the sheriff in six months on how many arrests have been made on this ordinance, not on trespassing nor the things that we saw on the video, but on this ordinance. I would like a report back of how effective it's been, how it was used and whether there were problems involved in that enforcement. So, if you are going to make a motion to approve, I would like to have that included in the motion.
154. Jump to 01:44:35 (6275 seconds)
Jeff Stone: I will go ahead and make that motion with the recommendations of my colleague Supervisor Wilson.
155. Jump to 01:44:45 (6285 seconds)
Jeff Stone: Please Vote. That passes with four, Supervisor Buster dissenting.
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Doug Owens: Hi, thank you. I'm going to thank you, Mr Wilson, for suggesting a six-month monitoring of the 884 enforcement. I also want to suggest that perhaps you consider expanding that to all law enforcement activities on Gilman Hot Springs Road to make sure that the Sheriff doesn't overstep its bounds and, as you said (looking to Buster), have difficulty interpreting the complexity of 884. And finally, I'd like to thank you, Miss Walls, for your patient explanation of your interpretation of 884. Based on my reading of the case law I think you were correct on most points. And I'm going to thank the Board for letting me speak.
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Stone: Thank you Mr. Owens. Our last speaker is Mark, I think it's 'Bundy', I'm having trouble reading the last name. Mark from San Diego.
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